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Old 07-14-2012, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,360,856 times
Reputation: 7990

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I found this interview by Jane Williams of Bloomberg concise and informative. She interviewed a former education official from Ontario, CA named Ben Levin.
Bloomberg EDU Podcast - Bloomberg

If you click on 'download' you can instantly hear the interview, at least it worked for me.

Canada ranks around 6-7 in the world in student performance, compared to about 25 for the US.

As a conservative, I don't buy everything that he says, but he does have the results to back up his words. Ben Levin gives four basic reasons for the shellacking:

1) NO FEDERAL involvement in education. This makes perfect sense to me. It makes no sense to have a layer in Washington DC directing education, which is an inherently personal enterprise.

2) Reduction of inequity. This too makes perfect sense to me. As a conservative there is an argument to be made for equality of opportunity. Why should a kid in a wealthy zip code get a more expensive ediucation than a kid in a poor zip code? Either make the parent and/or charity responsible for funding, or make it equitable. Right now we've got a system that is neither fish nor fowl. We know that funding does not always translate performance, viz DC, but obviously funding does tend to matter.

3) High caliber teachers. Teachers in Canada come from the top tier of college grads, while teachers in the US come from the bottom tier.

4) School choice. Levin says that there is a lot of choice in Canada, but it is not as 'divisive' an issue as in the US.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:00 PM
 
Location: DFW
40,951 posts, read 49,189,517 times
Reputation: 55008
5. No swarm of illegal aliens by the millions who speak no English and have very little education illegally crossing your borders and Govt giving them "sanctuary".

6. No large population of minorities who puts no emphasis on education and expect Govt to support and raise their kids.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:13 PM
 
32,075 posts, read 15,062,274 times
Reputation: 13688
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
I found this interview by Jane Williams of Bloomberg concise and informative. She interviewed a former education official from Ontario, CA named Ben Levin.
Bloomberg EDU Podcast - Bloomberg

If you click on 'download' you can instantly hear the interview, at least it worked for me.

Canada ranks around 6-7 in the world in student performance, compared to about 25 for the US.

As a conservative, I don't buy everything that he says, but he does have the results to back up his words. Ben Levin gives four basic reasons for the shellacking:

1) NO FEDERAL involvement in education. This makes perfect sense to me. It makes no sense to have a layer in Washington DC directing education, which is an inherently personal enterprise.

2) Reduction of inequity. This too makes perfect sense to me. As a conservative there is an argument to be made for equality of opportunity. Why should a kid in a wealthy zip code get a more expensive ediucation than a kid in a poor zip code? Either make the parent and/or charity responsible for funding, or make it equitable. Right now we've got a system that is neither fish nor fowl. We know that funding does not always translate performance, viz DC, but obviously funding does tend to matter.

3) High caliber teachers. Teachers in Canada come from the top tier of college grads, while teachers in the US come from the bottom tier.

4) School choice. Levin says that there is a lot of choice in Canada, but it is not as 'divisive' an issue as in the US.

That's just not true about US teachers. If you are talking about bottom tier then you should blame the states for their criteria on teachers. I think some states don't care what you major in but if you have a teaching certificate then you can be hired. In my state you have to be accepted into the education major and it's not easy. And then there is no guarantee you will be hired as a teacher because it is very selective. Only the best get hired, one reason our schools are some of the best in the country.
People blame the unions for bad teachers but that's not really the problem. Blame each state for their requirement of a teachers education.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:16 PM
 
9,639 posts, read 6,018,049 times
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You forgot that the US teaches to the lowest tier, while those a bit more bright are stuck being bored in school without much mental stimulation.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,642 posts, read 26,378,527 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
That's just not true about US teachers. If you are talking about bottom tier then you should blame the states for their criteria on teachers. I think some states don't care what you major in but if you have a teaching certificate then you can be hired. In my state you have to be accepted into the education major and it's not easy. And then there is no guarantee you will be hired as a teacher because it is very selective. Only the best get hired, one reason our schools are some of the best in the country.
People blame the unions for bad teachers but that's not really the problem. Blame each state for their requirement of a teachers education.


I blame the unions for a complete lack of accountability.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:27 PM
 
32,075 posts, read 15,062,274 times
Reputation: 13688
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
I blame the unions for a complete lack of accountability.
But you are wrong. Yes, the union represents the teachers but who is ultimately responsible for training them in the first place......the state.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:30 PM
 
1,389 posts, read 1,312,942 times
Reputation: 287
You can't train a teacher, they either have it or they don't.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:35 PM
 
32,075 posts, read 15,062,274 times
Reputation: 13688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmund_Burke View Post
You can't train a teacher, they either have it or they don't.
Ok sorry, I meant educate a teacher to the criteria that each state has for their requirements. And what do you mean by....they have it or they don't. You really don't understand what involves teaching do you.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:54 PM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
17,005 posts, read 12,595,161 times
Reputation: 8925
>I blame the unions for a complete lack of accountability.<

Er. Unions are STRONGER in Canada

>while teachers in the US come from the bottom tier<

please provide a reasonably neutral source for this one.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,360,856 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
>I blame the unions for a complete lack of accountability.<

Er. Unions are STRONGER in Canada

>while teachers in the US come from the bottom tier<

please provide a reasonably neutral source for this one.
not neutral, but factual.


Schools of Education - Walter E. Williams - [page]
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