Poverty Is Too Profitable To Eliminate It (Rush Limbaugh, employment, health care)

[AnywhereElse]

I had been thinking when responding to another thread about poverty, that poverty is too big of industry for there to be a true incentive to end it. Look at all the associated jobs and services, good paying ones, that the poverty industry entails. Here, I have heard that people are encouraged to have more children to increase the size of their monthly checks if they don't find them adequate, seriously. More people on the case load means more positions and more supervisory personnel. At this time with so many people uninsured, Medicaid recipients fill those gaps and although reimbursement may be low, money is still money and some is better than none. I have son with developmental disabilities who is an adult and he recently received a "recruitment" card from the contractor for the state that handles mental health services in a mass mailing to anyone with a Medicaid card. Think about all the governmental food assistance in the school like free breakfast and lunch and all the extra programs for those "at risk". In a country with so few industries except for health care and the prison system, poverty is an industry that we cannot do without. What a sad state of affairs.

[AnnieA]

Anywhere else, I found this very thought provoking and I think I may agree with you. When you stop and think about it, what would happen to all the jobs, dollars poured into these programs ? On the other hand, the idea of giving someone a hand up is good. As always, we as humans, took advantage.

I heard Rush Limbaugh say today on his program that there were more people going on disability this month (?)/year (?) than jobs being created. It has reached a big amount of people applying or on disability. They say that always happens in times of economic stress. I have seen the official studies and figures. Right now, I know a 46 years old man trying to get on it and I have seen him work. He was recently working as a cook but now he is disabled because he can't find a job. His wife said they needed to get a little something coming in that was steady......

We are in a mess, I tell 'ya.

[ovcatto]

This being the so-called "Great Debate" forum, I am prohibited from dismissing this thread just on the face of it. But because it is the so-call "Great Debate" forum perhaps instead it would be better to ask for you to substantiate your premise with something other than.... conjecture, and supposition.

Originally Posted by AnywhereElse

Look at all the associated jobs and services, good paying ones, that the poverty industry entails.

Yes, let's look at them. How many jobs do you suppose the "poverty" industry supply?

I have heard that people are encouraged to have more children to increase the size of their monthly checks if they don't find them adequate, seriously.

Don't recall "having heard" as serving as a basis for establishing fact.

More people on the case load means more positions and more supervisory personnel.

As opposed to more case load, meaning an increased case load. Perhaps you can show an increase in public sector employment or pay based upon the increase in the either the poverty rate or the size of case load. Plenty of recent statistics to choose from.

In a country with so few industries except for health care and the prison system, poverty is an industry that we cannot do without. What a sad state of affairs.

Gee, the healthcare industry represents 10% of GDP, social safety net programs represent 1%-2% of GDP. As for the prison industry, well that is indeed an industry with all the accouterments of lobbyist, corrupt politicians, and most importantly the profit motive. With those paltry numbers, I suggest that you have your work cut out for you if you want to make your premise work.

[Kenneth-Kaunda]

and of course, we must have poor people to allow us to have rich people.

[nyyfanatic85]

Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda

and of course, we must have poor people to allow us to have rich people.

No. On what basis do you make these claims? It is a serious error to see economics as a zero-sum game, where the rich get rich at the poor's expense. The successful corporations with money are the ones who have taken risk to develop a product that other people want- and buy. If they are profitable, it is because the consumer - who has the ultimate authority on the success of the company by way of his choice - has selected that company's product. There isn't a finite level of cash or wealth in this country; everyone is free to create his or her own. I would strongly encourage you to visit the following webpage for more on the zero-sum fallacy, which you are evidently falling for:

The Zero-Sum Fallacy - Issues - PovertyCure and click on the "Issues" tab.

[Kenneth-Kaunda]

ok, thanks for the link - I've had a quick look and it seems interesting so I'll try to read up some more later.

but if we start at the basics for now that would be good:

say we have $1000 in the pot to share between 10 people.

For one person to be rich, say to get $910, then the others would have to be poor, ie: only get $10 each.

so, how can we enable each person to be rich here?

[texdav]

The biggest benfitor of poverty is big governamnt .But poverty itsself is always chnaing as to what level of existence it means. Poverty has defined by governamnt includes nothig but income and no part of what welfare system provides.Also as Clinto saqdi 80% of governamnt money for poverty goes to Urban areas with 20% of poverty while two rural area withnt eh 80% get 20%. The politcs of poverty reality in fightig it. That is why he and bus actually joined in promtoig individual giing so as to actaully get the money tot eh people without the polics and high governat middleman in cost.But i the end poverty now i days is more or lkess whaqtever the lowest income group is not based on actaully no roof or no food type issues.

[ovcatto]

Originally Posted by nyyfanatic85

webpage for more on the zero-sum fallacy, which you are evidently falling for:

From the little snippets on the website I can say that I am totally unimpressed for the simple reason that the argument relies on the same canard as the op, by trying to attribute foreign aid as being futile. Well that depends on the intention of the foreign aid doesn't it. If the aid is in reality a method for paying off "corrupt foreign" governments and in so doing continue an advantageous relationship between developed nations and underdeveloped nations does it not maintain the very disparate economic relationship?

Example, we provide x amount of dollars to corrupt government y, in exchange y uses part of the money received to tamp down civil unrest, which allows y to provide a stable supply of much needed and cheap raw materials to the donor nation. Raw materials which become value added products which in turn maintain the imbalance between rich and poor states.

[Kenneth-Kaunda]

I agree there, and is partly what I am getting at.

If we want to have a prosperous nation then someone down the line must pay for it, ie: the less prosperous nation.

so if we can get $10/hr for working in Macdonalds in the West, then someone has to be paid $0.5/hr in the 3rd World,

something like that anyway

[ambient]

Originally Posted by AnywhereElse

I had been thinking when responding to another thread about poverty, that poverty is too big of industry for there to be a true incentive to end it. Look at all the associated jobs and services, good paying ones, that the poverty industry entails. Here, I have heard that people are encouraged to have more children to increase the size of their monthly checks if they don't find them adequate, seriously. More people on the case load means more positions and more supervisory personnel. At this time with so many people uninsured, Medicaid recipients fill those gaps and although reimbursement may be low, money is still money and some is better than none. I have son with developmental disabilities who is an adult and he recently received a "recruitment" card from the contractor for the state that handles mental health services in a mass mailing to anyone with a Medicaid card. Think about all the governmental food assistance in the school like free breakfast and lunch and all the extra programs for those "at risk". In a country with so few industries except for health care and the prison system, poverty is an industry that we cannot do without. What a sad state of affairs.

Yes, we should definitely do away with all assistance, non-profits, health programs for poor and homeless people and let them fend for themselves Then there will be no more poverty!