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So a woman should be allowed to die from medical complications from a pregnancy?
What about tubal pregnancy? It is still a life, even though it will almost always kill the woman.
How you were able to come up with a question like that based upon what I said is absolutely beyond my comprehension.
In my view, I think the discussion about abortion, needs to be from a subjective point-of-view. As in, you need to have good intentions, in which, if there was such a thing as judgement in death, that you could stand behind your actions. Or at least, lets pretend you were a prospective child, as a spirit, you need to be able to tell him why it is that you think he shouldn't be brought into the world.
I'm sure, if you could tell the kid, that he was the product of incest, and would forever be tainted by it, potentially having large amounts of genetic issues, that he might understand your point. I think of it like down syndrome, if you knew before you were born that you would have down syndrome, would you still choose to be born?
The same with rape, if you could go before your child and say, you are and would forever be the result of a violent and terrible sexual assault. Your father is a horrible person, and will most likely be locked away in prison your whole life, and even if he wasn't, you should never speak to him. You would be fatherless, and your mother would forever be bitter because of the rape when she sees you, even if she loves you. And that is something you will have to carry on your shoulders your entire life.
On the other hand if you say, mommy is in college, and she wasn't ready to get pregnant right now. She wants to postpone beginning her family till after she gets out of college and gets a good job.
Sure, it sounds good to a certain extent on paper. But the reality is, what does it really matter? Why is having a good job so important? Can't you always finish school later? It isn't like you won't be able to feed the child, or clothe them. Kids aren't necessarily any more happy in rich families than in poor families. I was poor, and I wasn't unhappy just from being poor. I was actually quite happy when I was poor.
Also, if you go up to your kid and say. Hey, I got pregnant by some guy I met at a party. And I don't want to ruin my body by being pregnant. It'll give me stretch marks and some extra fat. So, I instead of damaging my perfect body, I'm just not going to have you.
Basically, the rape and incest abortion is something that if I had to go before god or the child, and explain to him why I had an abortion. I feel like I have a legitimate reason, and a reason which is not selfish.
The other reasons that most women have abortions. I just can't imagine being able to tell god or the child my reasons, and for them to agree. They would turn to me, tell me to grow up, tell me to take responsibility for myself, stop being so selfish, and do the right thing. You'll forever regret it if you don't.
Dude, you have no compassion whatsoever, just judgement and condemnation. Let people see Jesus in you, don't beat them over the head with the Bible.
you see lack of compassion in others but don't see it in yourself. or is your lack of compassion for a woman who wants to exercise her choice and picks abortion somehow different.
you care more for a few undeveloped cell then for the victim of a violent crime. you put a fetus above a woman who is under an emotional upheaval someone who hasn't ever been raped could begin to understand, and want her to extend her horrible experience by carrying a pregnancy to term. do you care if she is suicidal or severely depressed?
you don't care that if she is brave enough and keeps takes the pregnancy to term she could have the rapist in her life for the next 18 years. you don't care that the child could be the spitting image of the criminal that the woman would have to look at and care for for 18 years.
having half ass compassion is not really empathy is it?
this choice is up to the individual woman. not your business why or how she got pregnant. it is up to her, her doctor and her god if she has one. you don't want an abortion don't have one. for every other woman it is up to them. you wanna go ahead and think it is murder you go ahead. a rape or incest victim doesn't need or want your judgements.
In my view, I think the discussion about abortion, needs to be from a subjective point-of-view. As in, you need to have good intentions, in which, if there was such a thing as judgement in death, that you could stand behind your actions. Or at least, lets pretend you were a prospective child, as a spirit, you need to be able to tell him why it is that you think he shouldn't be brought into the world.
I'm sure, if you could tell the kid, that he was the product of incest, and would forever be tainted by it, potentially having large amounts of genetic issues, that he might understand your point. I think of it like down syndrome, if you knew before you were born that you would have down syndrome, would you still choose to be born?
The same with rape, if you could go before your child and say, you are and would forever be the result of a violent and terrible sexual assault. Your father is a horrible person, and will most likely be locked away in prison your whole life, and even if he wasn't, you should never speak to him. You would be fatherless, and your mother would forever be bitter because of the rape when she sees you, even if she loves you.
On the other hand if you say, mommy is in college, and she wasn't ready to get pregnant right now. She wants to postpone beginning her family till after she gets out of college and gets a good job.
Sure, it sounds good to a certain extent on paper. But the reality is, what does it really matter? Why is having a good job so important? Can't you always finish school later? It isn't like you won't be able to feed the child, or clothe them. Kids aren't necessarily any more happy in rich families than in poor families. I was poor, and I wasn't unhappy just from being poor. I was actually quite happy when I was poor.
Also, if you go up to your kid and say. Hey, I got pregnant by some guy I met at a party. And I don't want to ruin my body by being pregnant. It'll give me stretch marks and some extra fat. So, I instead of damaging my perfect body, I'm just not going to have you.
Basically, the rape and incest abortion is something that if I had to go before god or the child, and explain to him why I had an abortion. I feel like I have a legitimate reason, and a reason which is not selfish.
The other reasons that most women have abortions. I just can't imagine being able to tell god or the child my reasons, and for them to agree. They would turn to me, tell me to grow up, tell me to take responsibility for myself, stop being so selfish, and do the right thing. You'll forever regret it if you don't.
millions of people do not believe in god.
the child of abortion doesn't not have comprehension in the womb nor will it if it is aborted.
a woman makes her choice based on values
Sorry, but facts are facts. A human person is not considered human by law until its born.
If you can't handle the facts, then you have no business telling others what to believe.
Science actually agrees with me. Birth. You understand what birth means. At any point where a living organism can live outside the womb of its parent, or no longer needs to developing within an egg
does a 6 week old embryo have the ability to breathe on its own. Does it have the lung capacity to do so?
Your skin cells are alive. Are they breathing on their own? should we covnvict everyone of murder who sheds skin everyday?
that's how ridiculous your question is.
No, and neither do people on oxygen masks, inhalers and iron lungs. Should we be allowed to kill them too?
Last edited by Sophiasmommy; 08-25-2012 at 08:57 AM..
This thread has proven one thing : you make a whole lot of assumptions about things that you do not know much about. I have been the victim of a violent rape, and I have also sought charity care to help with medical expenses when I was diagnosed with Stage IV lymphoma a month after my 23rd birthday. Charity care at every hospital, my tush.
When I had my miscarriage, I had to pay for that using every bit of birthday and babysitting money that was meant to get me through college for the past several years. No charity care for a 17 year old whose "job" was to get scholarships to school (which I was successful at with over $40,000 for all 4 years of school - something I would never have been able to achieve had I been pregnant and suicidal my senior year of college), even though my parents were unemployed. I still had to pay for the ER visit and medications.
I had to pay for years of therapy as well. No charity care for that. Imagine the therapy if I was forced to relive the rape every day with pregnancy?
But you would want a 17 year old rape victim to find some way of paying for a pregnancy? Or any rape victim? Even where there is charity care, there's not enough to go around. Even those who are insured often have policies that exclude pregnancy and childbirth to keep the rates down.
And what of complicated pregnancies? What charity care is there to keep a roof over someone's head if the pregnancy requires bedrest? I had to work full time through chemo against doctor's orders because - guess what - there is none. Disability has strict requirements and that is not one of them.
You cannot claim compassion for victims of rape and incest by putting all of these burdens on them. An easy pregnancy is upwards of $10,000. A difficult one is easily over $100,000. And that's not counting the very serious emotional and psychological implications for a woman who was just used, and now is being told by society that she doesn't matter - she just needs to be used again as an incubator.
I am so very sorry for all you have gone through. You have my utmost respect for sharing your story, and your continued committment to advocating for women.
Sadly many in the pro-life camp will just not read your experiences. It makes them feel uncomfortable, and makes it too real for them. They imagine a scenario in their heads of a woman giving birth to a beautiful baby, and handing it over to a loving family, and they all lived happily ever after. They NEVER take into account the real-world issues facing everyone involved. They really don't want to know, denial of the real facts is how they justify their stance.
Obviously comprehending what you are reading seems to trouble you.
Man charged with trying to kill girlfriend's fetus
You even quoted it. He wasn't trying to kill the girlfriend.
I don't say this often, but you, sir, have a reading problem. Not a comprehension problem, a simple reading problem. The "official" title of the articles says, "Man Charged With Murder of Girlfriend, Unborn Child". The opening sentence says, "ADELANTO, Calif. (KTLA) -- Prosecutors filed charges Wednesday against a man accused of beating his pregnant girlfriend to death, the alleged beating also resulting in the death of his unborn baby."
Survival Rates
•Babies born at 23 weeks have a 17% chance of survival
•Babies born at 24 weeks have a 39% chance of survival
•Babies born at 25 weeks have a 50% chance of survival
•From 32 weeks onwards, most babies are able to survive with the help of medical Technology [EPICure data]
Even at 20 weeks, the fetus has a very low chance of survival. Heck, even at 25 weeks (6 months), it only has a 50% chance.
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