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Wow, you really might be 12. Have a nice day, I have better things to do than have petty arguments with children.
I'm 12? Whatever comforts you. It shows real maturity to realize something is wrong with this system and both parties don't have a proper choice in the matter. Let's try to fix it. No, you like the fact how the USA has become a feminist nation and will give women every possible advantage and take every opportunity to shaft men. Then you want to veil it as equality.
I'm 12? Whatever comforts you. It shows real maturity to realize something is wrong with this system and both parties don't have a proper choice in the matter. Let's try to fix it. No, you like the fact how the USA has become a feminist nation and will give women every possible advantage and take every opportunity to shaft men. Then you want to veil it as equality.
Women want equality on their own terms, seeing the government as their daddy. Yet, they refer to men as children for speaking their mind against misandric injustices and double standards.
Feminism is just a female supremacist hate group and the government is their parent. The politicians have made it so men have only limited choices but women have multiple when it comes to abortion.
Women want equality on their own terms, seeing the government as their daddy. Yet, they refer to men as children for speaking their mind against misandric injustices and double standards.
Feminism is just a female supremacist hate group and the government is their parent. The politicians have made it so men have only limited choices but women have multiple when it comes to abortion.
You're wrong in one particular part. They have no choice.
I think what we have here is a failure on the part of women to understand the implicit contract they are entering into when having consensual sexual contact with a man. Putting it in terms of copyright law, I consider my sperm (and the genetic material contained within) my personal property. Any contact a partner has with that property is in the capacity of a licensee, not an owner, since I would never willingly agree to transfer complete ownership of that property. The licensee can temporarily use that property in a number of ways, but is absolutely barred from using it in other ways (such as creating any new life with it). Therefore, any woman creating new life with it is in violation of that implicit contract (copyright infringement), a thief for refusing to return/dispose of it upon demand after violating the contract, a generally terrible person for attempting to force me to have a child against my will, and an extortionist for attempting to use a biased court system to enforce continuing obligations despite my perfectly natural right to end the contract.
You're wrong in one particular part. They have no choice.
Her body, her choice.
correct.
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His wallet, her choice.
How utterly simplistic and absurd. It becomes financial for him, once he chooses to have unprotected sex with a woman.
A man should be of the mind 100% of the time, that sex will result in babies. So if he doesn't want to father any unwanted children, then STAY celibate, Learn to say "no" or put a sock on the joystick.
I think what we have here is a failure on the part of women to understand the implicit contract they are entering into when having consensual sexual contact with a man.
What we have his is the failure on the part of the man to understand that they should realize that 100% of the time, if they have sex with a woman, that it will result in pregnancy. there is no "contract" being made here.
you do the deed, you reap the consequences should something fail to work properly (even birth control).
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Putting it in terms of copyright law, I consider my sperm (and the genetic material contained within) my personal property.
For ease of argument, please don't reply in-line. It makes it difficult to counter.
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Originally Posted by detshen
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Originally Posted by Konraden
The physical work of pregnancy is a pittance compared to the 18 years of child rearing that comes after it--and this argument applies equally well to mandating child-support from women as well.
No woman would even attempt this absurd argument. This is seriously bitter man territory, because in one instance HE doesn't have ALL the power. A mature man wouldn't even have this argument, a mature man accepts that the physical differences in pregnancy require inequality and you can't fix that by denying a child the father's support.
Every human being has complete rights over their own body, that's why abortion is legal, it's not about not forcing a woman to have a child, and so now we somehow have to equalize men, it's about her divine right to her own body, which men already have. You guys are so worried about your wallet which is nothing compared to someone trying to take over your body.
Doesn't matter if a woman would "try" this argument (and interesting that you speak for all women. Good to know!). The argument applies across sex here.
Oh look, a bunch of women talking about this exact issue, and some of them agreeing with me!
And as I mentioned. 9 months is nothing compared to 18 years. Since my wallet seems to be the only thing you're interested in, maybe I should have a right to it.
I don't care about your body. Want an abortion? Have one. Have six. I could care less. But if you want me to pay for a child that I didn't want, that I would rather have had aborted, you're insane. I have as much right to not support the child as you do to abort the thing.
And this isn't about having "ALL the control" as you say, but rather, control over my body--and what I keep on it.
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It's a phrase. You're demanding special rights, and denying them others. Having cake and eating it too.
BS, if men could bear children they would have every right to have an abortion. They are not being forced ot do anything with their bodies they don't want to.
I like Inmate's response. You're in violation of our contract.
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I'm pro-choice all the way, but there is equal comparison here between a woman's right to choose, and a man's right to choose. We may not have the right to choose an abortion, but why does that demand we don't have the right to choose to support the child?
No, there is absolutely not an equal comparison. You can't fix a physical inequality with denying support to living children. Women do not have to right to deny support to living children either.
Yes you do. Adopt the child out, problem solved.
Alternatively, you could always have the child and give it to the father that wants it and likewise opt-out of payments. That's true equality.
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By that logic, women don't have the rights to their bodies, the womens' children do!
No, the child has just as much right to the mother's wallet, not her body, women can be sued for support too.
I'm using your logic here. If an unwanted child has a right to someone elses money, than the unwanted child has a right to someone elses body.
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We already do, if you haven't noticed. Millions of women already subsist on their incomes alone, and their incomes supplemented with federal benefits. You can't collect support from a dead man or a jailed one.
Dead or jailed men are a tiny fraction of fathers, you are advocating for massive father abandonment, every man can have all the sex he wants and never choose to support those children,
Women can have all the sex they want and do the same!
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why would he even bother with birth control, the women have ALL the responsibility for every child born.
No, they don't have all the responsibility. They have to deal with the pregnancy. After that, it's up to the parents.
Mothers are not bound by law to care for the children for 18 years any more than the man is, but we do have laws that force men and women to make payments (even if they want nothing to do with the child).
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We would need huge amounts of welfare to support those children. Talk about cake and eating it, the guy doesn't even have to deal with an abortion. That's not equality and it would ruin our society, but you guys would get your supposed equality, so you're happy!
We already have huge amounts of welfare supporting those children, not to mention the tens of thousands of children already in foster care.
Even with child-support payments, a single mother may need federal benefits to subsist.
Of course, if a woman knows that the man isn't going to be there to pay for the child he doesn't want, she has to be ready to afford it on her own. We allow single-parent adoptions and yet nobody is going after the birth-parents for support payments.
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This argument is just disgusting, I'm thankful there are mature men out there who don't hate women and children, and actually choose to be part of their lives!
Sure, but they chooseto be part of those childrens' lives. Remember, pro-choice is all about choice.
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Originally Posted by Arus
correct.
How utterly simplistic and absurd. It becomes financial for him, once he chooses to have unprotected sex with a woman.
A man should be of the mind 100% of the time, that sex will result in babies. So if he doesn't want to father any unwanted children, then STAY celibate, Learn to say "no" or put a sock on the joystick.
That's just biologically incorrect. 100% of sexual encounters without birth control do not result in baby-making.
And you're using the old pro-lifer argument: if the woman didn't want a child, she should have kept her legs closed. That's archaic and insane.
We have sex. We have lots of sex. We take steps to minimize the ability to have children as a result of that sex. But when pregnancy does happen, women can choose to abort a child.
A man has no such choice. The best a man can do is not pay child-support for a child he didn't want in the first place. Using the "close your legs" argument is as weak for pro-life as it is for--pro-robbery(?).
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Originally Posted by inmate347
Shouldn't I at least get a smiley face for trying to lighten things up a bit?
I thought it was great (flawed) analogy. Have a cookie.
I'm not wasting my time on these ridiculous point by point arguments. You are mistaken, and frankly absurd in your idea of inequality
"Remember, pro-choice is all about choice."
Pro choice is just a term, the law is about protecting women's rights to control over their own body, the constitutional right to privacy, period, end of story. Everyone has the right to control over ones own body, men included, their rights are not being infringed upon, so they have no issue that requires being dealt with, they have all the same protections as women, there is no inequality.
What you are complaining about is a simple unfairness in child birth, we all know it's not fair for women either, life's hard and unfair, but the mature among us learn to deal with it.
The whole "have a say in abortion" vs "paying child support" is apples to oranges. It's not something you can either/or your way around so why do people keep trying? Ignorance? Illogical though process? Trying to fit a round peg in a square hole never works. You can not make things EVEN STEVEN by picking two unrelated things and forcing them together. Woman have the babies, repeat that over and over until you get it in your heads and stop trying to find something to balance out things on the mens side. You can't do anything except NOT IMPREGNATE A WOMAN. That means no sex or at least no sex without bc. It's ENTIRELY up to you guys. ENTIRELY. Woman aren't forcing themselves on you to get your seed. The only reason woman have taken such control over reproduction is because guys never do.
Well said!
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Have a nice day, I have better things to do than have petty arguments with children.
