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Old 09-21-2013, 05:14 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boner View Post
No it is not
Actually it is. Government should have no role in promoting religion in any way shape or form.

That is the job of the mosques, synagogues, churches, and family.
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Old 09-21-2013, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,544,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound View Post
We've got bigger fish to fry then worry about BS like this....

No doubt that was the case when the bible-thumpers insisted that the empty slogan be placed on money back in the day, too.

Time to correct their error.

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Old 09-21-2013, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Florida
33,571 posts, read 18,161,091 times
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Yes, satan would love to remove God completely from this earth.. after all Satan wanted to be higher than God.

The separation of church and state does not mean removing the presence of God from society. After all satan wants to creep into the churches and take over.. Jesus had an encounter with satan who used the word of God against Jesus.

The world has grown more corrupt , good is bad and bad is good today. Look at the world... look at MTV and see how degrading it is. Look at the videos that promote materialism, sex and violence and this is feeding the kids garbage... . It will get worse.

But having money with the words In God We Trust on it is bad.
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Old 09-21-2013, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Florida
33,571 posts, read 18,161,091 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint. View Post
God never wanted to be associated with money in the first place - Give to Caesar what is Caesar's.
God spoke about money and how to increase it with diligence and hard work.

Jesus said that to the pharisees as they were trying to trick Jesus. Jesus in his wisdom said , render to Caesar the things of Caesar.

[CENTER][SIZE=5]What did Jesus mean when He said "Render on to Caesar..."?[/SIZE][/CENTER]








If, in party-line Christian circles, you bring up the idea that the current American system of taxation is corrupt and that a Christian should not participate, you are bound to get a room full of people saying that "Jesus told us to Render on to Caesar." Did He? I am not denying that those words came out of His mouth. But we should study to see what Jesus really meant when He said that we should render unto Caesar. Let's look at the Word of God.Matthew 22:15-22
15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.
16 And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.
(emphasis added)
So what He said was "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's." Let's look further into the passage.
First, we need to put the encounter into perspective. We need to keep in mind that the men asking the question meant to "entangle" Jesus. Read verse 16 again. You can almost hear the treachery as they try to flatter Jesus into making a mistake. You see, it was against Jewish law to pay tribute to Caesar. But it was against Caesars law to not pay the tribute. In verse 18 we see that "Jesus perceived their wickedness." If Jesus answered that they should not pay the tribute, they would have called the Roman authorities and had Him arrested for crimes against Caesar. If He answered that they should pay the tribute they would be able to speak against Him to the Jews. Jesus didn't give them the satisfaction. That leaves us to determine what Jesus meant.
Next, we must understand how Jesus responded. He asked to be shown the money that was used to pay tribute to Caesar. An understanding of the money is very important to an understanding of Jesus' remarks. Verse 19 says that they brought Jesus a penny. This would most likely have been a denarius. There were many varieties of this coin. Every Caesar minted a variety of coins to promote himself and his political ambitions. One of the denarius minted by Tiberius was inscribed "Augustus Tiberius, son of the Divine Augustus." Tiberius considered himself the son of divinity. On a coin minted by Augustus, he declared himself "Son of God." The Caesars generally considered themselves deity. The Romans didn't care about your religious beliefs, as long as once a year you would take a pinch of salt and say Caesar is Lord. Many first century believers died because they refused to take that pinch of salt.
Lastly, we must remember that the men that asked the question "marveled" at His answer. Why did they marvel? As the verse is taught in the party-line church, there is really nothing to marvel at. According to them, Jesus said to pay the tribute. Again I'll ask, did He?
Now let's look at some other scripture. In particular, I want to point out scripture that explains what is Caesar's and what is God's, because Jesus didn't say render to Caesar, but rather render to Caesar what is Caesars.
  • Perhaps the clearest example as to what God sees as His is found in Psalms 24:1 "The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein." God says it's all His! Are you a creation of God or a creation of Caesar? Do you, like the Apostle Paul, live, move, and have your being in Him? Can you do all things through Christ that strengthens you? Have you found some way to serve two masters? Christ said you couldn't!
  • But we know that the world has been given to Satan. After Jesus had been on His forty day fast, (Matthew 4:8-9) "...the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me." Jesus had just pointed out Satan's other lies, but to this He replied (Matthew 4:10) "Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." Jesus is making the same point in the passage we are studying here! But I am getting ahead of myself.
When Jesus said "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's" He was saying, decide who is your god. Is it the prince of this world or the God of Abraham? That's why the men that posed the question marveled at the answer. Jesus didn't tell you to serve any other master. The Jews would have looked at the image and inscription and would have known that Jesus was not saying to pay the tax. Would Jesus have acknowledged that Caesar was god? Yet without saying that, Jesus conveyed His message loud and clear to the wicked Jewish leaders.
The PLC (party-line church) tells us to obey all government (al la Romans 13 and 1st Peter 2:13, etc.) forgetting that the same Paul that wrote Romans also wrote to the Ephesians (6:12) "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." The same Peter that wrote the epistle died at the hands of the government.
My point is not that of a tax protestor. I could make the same argument about other things of which Christians allow themselves to be involved. But if you are involved in the current United States income tax system you are serving another master. The funny thing is that you have volunteered into the system. I won't recite all the truths that support the fact that the US Income tax system is voluntary. I'll let you do your own research (if you have a love for the truth). I will get you started by sending you to the We The People web site. They don't take this from a biblical standpoint, but they do present the truth about how your government has lied to you.
Ask yourself why you participate, or perhaps a better question is "What happens if I don't render unto Caesar?". You can't use "Jesus said to render unto Caesar" as an excuse to follow a lie or to obey evil! The bottom line is that if a Christian is going to challenge the government by not participating in the lie, he or she stands to lose their stuff (things of this world). They might lose their house, or their job, or their car. And of course, the PLC will chastise them and say Jesus told you to render unto Caesar. And by this action they show who their father is (hint - Jesus told a group claiming they were of their father Abraham who their father really was).
The Bible is replete with scripture that tells you that you can't be on both sides of the fence. You can't serve God and mammon. Much of the confusion is actually propagated by the teachings of the PLC. They have to twist scripture in order to maintain much of their doctrinal posturing. And by this they become liars. And if you follow them, you will be a liar also.




Render unto Caesar
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Old 09-21-2013, 06:51 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,624,265 times
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Just write it on them if they remove it.
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Old 09-21-2013, 07:57 PM
 
26,143 posts, read 19,841,434 times
Reputation: 17241
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaPirate355
If that phrase seriously offends atheists then they are by far the biggest ******* in our nation.
Indeed and I thought they were QUITE OPEN MINDED.. (Meaning they didnt judge anything)
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:07 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 View Post
Indeed and I thought they were QUITE OPEN MINDED.. (Meaning they didnt judge anything)
So let's all just get along.

We'll keep in God We Trust on the one dollar bill, and on the five dollar bill will put there is no God.
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:09 PM
 
24,488 posts, read 41,141,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 View Post
Indeed and I thought they were QUITE OPEN MINDED.. (Meaning they didnt judge anything)
Well, FloridaPirate355 obviously is not Christian. That doesn't mean that she does not believe in god, however.
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:10 PM
 
24,488 posts, read 41,141,698 times
Reputation: 12920
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
So let's all just get along.

We'll keep in God We Trust on the one dollar bill, and on the five dollar bill will put there is no God.
This is quite absurd. One is acknowledging the existence of god while the other is denying it. No reference to god is leaving it open.
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:12 PM
 
167 posts, read 164,114 times
Reputation: 162
That seems rather pointless. Just because it says God doesn't mean it is promoting religion per se.
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