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My comments were completely dismissed? Why? Can you tell me how you have any right to steal from me in order to pay for your health care? From where do you derive the authority to steal from me for anything you want, and if you have that right... that authority, what is there to prevent me from demanding the same politicians take things from you in order to pay for my wants and expectations.
Socialism sucks... and everyone on here seems to be promoting a different level of socialism driven, redistribution of wealth, marxist (from each according to their ability to each according to their need) styled system where the healthy are abused and unjustly taxed to fund the unhealthy.
Further on my last post: Thats why the GOP has next to no credibility on this issue. Romney and Ryan just bantered around about premium support but that does nothing to address rates. You can't just throw some cash at people and expect everything to fix itself. The tax structure that we have now distorts healthcare economics to the point that premium support wouldn't work to address rising costs which is the primary problem. Further...the population argument doesn't make a lot of sense because the healthcare would likely be handled at the state level, just as the Canadian system is handled at the provincial level. And yes our population is higher but that doesn't mean we have a finite revenue source...more people means tax dollars which means more physicians and resources for investment into healthcare technology.
your still not getting the point
1. EVERYBODY in the USA has ACCESS to health CARE
2. single payer puts the BURDON on the minority of tax payers
3. costs continue to rise, because of the government and insurance
you want a solution.....
get rid of ALL health insurance/...government and private
its your body...your health...your bill...pay your own darn bill......NO-ONE should have to pay FOR YOU
singlepayer will do NOTHING to control costs...only make them go HIGHER, and be harder on the taxpayer
we the taxpayer CAN NOT (not will not) afford it
you want singlepayer.....show a way to PAY FOR IT....liberals never address this
one solution(that liberals will never go for, they wont give up the CONTROL)....get rid of the income tax, and use a consumption tax...EVERYONE has skin in the game...the more you SPEND, the more you pay in taxes....will hit the rich quite a bit
btw2....define the health STANDARD(what is covered-vs- what is not covered...and what defines that (ie giving a new knee to a 90 yr old-vs- new knee to a 45 yr old)) of your singlepayer (btw3 (singlepayer means ONE PAYER...the government...the taxpayer))
Last edited by workingclasshero; 01-29-2013 at 09:46 AM..
2. single payer puts the BURDON on the minority of tax payers
3. costs continue to rise, because of the government and insurance
you want a solution.....
get rid of ALL health insurance/...government and private
its your body...your health...your bill...pay your own darn bill......NO-ONE should have to pay FOR YOU
singlepayer will do NOTHING to control costs...only make them go HIGHER, and be harder on the taxpayer
we the taxpayer CAN NOT (not will not) afford it
you want singlepayer.....show a way to PAY FOR IT....liberals never address this
one solution(that liberals will never go for, they wont give up the CONTROL)....get rid of the income tax, and use a consumption tax...EVERYONE has skin in the game...the more you SPEND, the more you pay in taxes....will hit the rich quite a bit
1. I agree that we all have "access" to healthcare but thats like saying that we all have access to become millionaires if we work hard. Yes, you can crack an emergency room with no insurance and not be turned away but that exacerbate the problem of higher premiums.
2. Single payer puts the burden on all tax payers. The issue with healthcare is that we don't exist in a vacuum...you being healthy is great but some uninsured kid walking into ER's for a chest cold jacks up the rates for everyone...you already pay for these people whether you want to admit it or not.
3. Costs continue to rise because the economics of healthcare are distorted beyond repair. A single payer system allows for a central negotiating body to assist in regulating the cost of care over a broad spectrum...on top of that it essentailly knocks out "overhead/admin" costs which eat up almost 15% of premium.
And getting rid of all healthcare/insurance programs is a little insane. If you have a coronary, do you have 120k to pay for that just laying around? I'll bet not...We, the others, would end up footing the bill for your subsequent bankruptcy.
An area that we agree is on the consumption tax. I've always been an advocate for the FairTax...let me tell you how I think we could pay for single payer healthcare for everyone.
-Institute the Fair Tax (increases jobs because of favorable tax legislation which expands the tax base (more revenue), the law itself is revenue neutral, and progressive because of the prebate up to the poverty)
-Cut the military budget substantially (I'm sorry but I just don't believe that we need to spend more than the top 9 other countries combined).
-Limit welfare rolls and make welfare more stringent to stay on....lifetime maximums for sure.
-By expanding a "medicare for all" approach you could get rid of all admin cost for Medicaid
-Start reforming SS...this is our biggest opportunity...It was never meant to serve as a primary retirement source for 20 plus years....something, either partial privatization or other reforms have to take place to remain solvent...the eligibility age should be raised to 72 at a minimum.
-End most foreign aid...we have enough sh*t to deal with here to be helping everyone else.
-Close and sell most overseas military bases...we don't need a presence in all of these countries.
-End Amtrak funding and farm it out to private bidders.
That may not pay for ALL of it but it would come awfully damn close.
Last edited by wnewberry22; 01-29-2013 at 10:03 AM..
1. I agree that we all have "access" to healthcare but thats like saying that we all have access to become millionaires if we work hard. Yes, you can crack an emergency room with no insurance and not be turned away but that exacerbate the problem of higher premiums.
.
again you are stuck on INSURNACE (the reason you said premium) instaed of the ACTUAL COST OF CARE
FACT I can open the yellow pages (I at least know what they are, unlike some of the younger crowd here) look up a doctor, make an appointment and go....he/she provides a service...I then pay for the service rendered.
to bad most liberals dont want to pay their OWN bills
2. Single payer puts the burden on all tax payers. The issue with healthcare is that we don't exist in a vacuum...you being healthy is great but some uninsured kid walking into ER's for a chest cold jacks up the rates for everyone...you already pay for these people whether you want to admit it or not.
.
wrong...it puts the burdon on INCOME tax payers, of which there is a MINORITY in this country
320 million in this country
130 million tax FILERS
less than 80 million tax PAYERS
btw a kid with a chest cold should never be going to the EMERGENCY ROOM to begin with...call the famlly doctor and make an appointment
3. Costs continue to rise because the economics of healthcare are distorted beyond repair. A single payer system allows for a central negotiating body to assist in regulating the cost of care over a broad spectrum...on top of that it essentailly knocks out "overhead/admin" costs which eat up almost 15% of premium.
.
again you are stuck on INSURANCE (again you mention premium)
admin costs are less than 1% in medicare/medicaid and still we are spending 900 billion to cover (partially) 450 million
singlepayer does NOT control costs...
it does NOTHING to negotiate the costs of supplies (plaster, gauze, thermometers)
it does NOTHING to lower the costs of taxes and fees doctors/hospitals incur
the ONLY way singlepayer would save money...in the RESTRICTION of care
again you are stuck on INSURNACE (the reason you said premium) instaed of the ACTUAL COST OF CARE
FACT I can open the yellow pages (I at least know what they are, unlike some of the younger crowd here) look up a doctor, make an appointment and go....he/she provides a service...I then pay for the service rendered.
to bad most liberals dont want to pay their OWN bills
I understand that you can pay for services rendered by a physician...The problem is that the tax structure has distorted healthcare economics to the point that a true "market" for these services doesn't or can't really exist. You can stroll in for a checkup if your feeling crappy and pay a hundred bucks or so and that is well and good but if you are involved in a car accident and come into the ER with your spleen hanging out your butt hole in need of 30k worth of surgey and a three night hospital stay how do you anticipate paying for it?
An area that we agree is on the consumption tax. I've always been an advocate for the FairTax...let me tell you how I think we could pay for single payer healthcare for everyone.
-Institute the Fair Tax (increases jobs because of favorable tax legislation which expands the tax base (more revenue), the law itself is revenue neutral, and progressive because of the prebate up to the poverty)
-Cut the military budget substantially (I'm sorry but I just don't believe that we need to spend more than the top 9 other countries combined).
-Limit welfare rolls and make welfare more stringent to stay on....lifetime maximums for sure.
-By expanding a "medicare for all" approach you could get rid of all admin cost for Medicaid
-Start reforming SS...this is our biggest opportunity...It was never meant to serve as a primary retirement source for 20 plus years....something, either partial privatization or other reforms have to take place to remain solvent...the eligibility age should be raised to 72 at a minimum.
-End most foreign aid...we have enough sh*t to deal with here to be helping everyone else.
-Close and sell most overseas military bases...we don't need a presence in all of these countries.
-End Amtrak funding and farm it out to private bidders.
.
I agree with most of that...except #2...our military spending is right in line with everyone else
our CURRENT defense budget is only 4.3% of our GNP....china spends 3.9% of its gdp on military.......right in comparision with the rest of the world at 2-6%
france's defense budget is 500 million euro...while their gdp is about 1.4 trillion.....our spending is 600 billion with a gdp of 16 trillion.....so france actually spends MORE as a percentage of their gdp
defense spending as a % of GDP puts us at #27meaning 26 other countries spend MORE than us on their military as a percent of their gdp
we spend LESS now than we have in the last 30 years (adjusted for inflation)
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