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I tell you what, there were more than a few who deserved to be spit on when they got back.
So now finally the TRUE feellings come out. They deserved it. Such as...'Straffing those innocent villagers with machine gun fire. How could they?'
There is a reason the old axiom of War is Hell still exists. It's man's ultimate folly to resolve differences with his fellow man, BUT until Man himself has elevated himself to a higher plane of being, meaning morality, it remains the last option. Deal with it!
Of course says me. Do you have any idea how discussion forms work?
Your feeble attempts at distractions to dodge responding to my questions won't work on me HistorianDude. Why are you so fearful of dealing with this:
Quote:
Quote:
I can say that, because you introduced it in reply to another comment: I see that you have been harping on the point that "The burden of proof is on the affirmative.".
You stated just that, ...so where is your proof of that ugly contention about "liars" you posted that insults almost all of the people who've served in our military, myself included? ...and where is your proof that being liars "is part of the military culture"? ...and lastly where is your proof that "all war stories begin with "This is a no-sh*t story""?
Remember now mister HistorianDude..."The burden of proof is on the affirmative." and who is it that is making these affirmative allegations? I fear that this time somebody has let their ignominious and hate-filled agenda burying them up to their eyeballs.
I'm still waiting and by now...so is everyone else.
Could the reason be, because you know it would reveal you?
HistorianDude - An assist your way as I help answer my own question
Could it be that you fear me opening the door to the real Achille's Heel of your agenda?
No sooner did I mention Lembcke than you started to cower in the corner seeking a way out!
Strange isn't it. Lembcke appears to effectively support your position, yet you NEVER refer to him. Hmmm! WE know why though..., don't we!
Try this on for openers...as very early on in his "debunking"? attempt he says this:
Quote:
How do you prove that something did not happen? For this book I adopted two strategies. The first was to make the assumption that two mutually exclusive sets of circumstances cannot coexist in the same time and space. In the case of Vietnam veterans and the anti-war movement, I assumed that those two parties could not have been simultaneously hostile to one another and mutually supportive; anti-war activists could not have been spitting on veterans while at the same time befriending them in off-base coffeehouses. (Jerry Lembcke, The Spitting Image, 1998, pp. 3-4)
Hmmm! A strategy (Funny term to use wouldn't you think, when he could have used 'method'. In the realm of Words Mean Things, not the same inflection of meaning as strategy, which presumes AND suggests a foregone calculated intent) of making "assumptions" from the start. In a public opinion piece...One only logically resorts to that when one is of malevolent intention/s to presuppose an outcome and cannot find FACTS to corroborate his position. It's how he built up his perceived authority of opinion in "debunking" and so all the anti-war folks gravitated to he who said just what they wanted to hear. Embarassing in it's simplicity once revealed. Not unlike how a conspiracy theorist sows the seed of doubt by simply tilling it constantly into the content of his creative writing. To those of us who respect the etymology of words it's a subliminal suggestion "strategy". You see HistorianDude, the more one reads of it, the more one seeking reinforcement for their own beliefs becomes reassured of their position. You had psychology at The Point, so you were already aware of that. I know!
Unfortunately, most people do not read with the circumspection to detail that I do, so the not so obvious becomes obvious to me. Outing deceivers is a avocation of mine, because in forming an informed position on anything it is essential that you are able to discern when someone is attempting to whistle the wind up your posterior orifice!
Could it be that you fear me opening the door to the real Achille's Heel of your agenda?
No sooner did I mention Lembcke than you started to cower in the corner seeking a way out!
Strange isn't it. Lembcke appears to effectively support your position, yet you NEVER refer to him. Hmmm! WE know why though..., don't we!
Try this on for openers...as very early on in his "debunking"? attempt he says this:
Hmmm! A strategy (Funny term to use wouldn't you think, when he could have used 'method'. In the realm of Words Mean Things, not the same inflection of meaning as strategy, which presumes AND suggests a foregone calculated intent) of making "assumptions" from the start. In a public opinion piece...One only logically resorts to that when one is of malevolent intention/s to presuppose an outcome and cannot find FACTS to corroborate his position. It's how he built up his perceived authority of opinion in "debunking" and so all the anti-war folks gravitated to he who said just what they wanted to hear. Embarassing in it's simplicity once revealed. Not unlike how a conspiracy theorist sows the seed of doubt by simply tilling it constantly into the content of his creative writing. To those of us who respect the etymology of words it's a subliminal suggestion "strategy". You see HistorianDude, the more one reads of it, the more one seeking reinforcement for their own beliefs becomes reassured of their position. You had psychology at The Point, so you were already aware of that. I know!
Unfortunately, most people do not read with the circumspection to detail that I do, so the not so obvious becomes obvious to me. Outing deceivers is a avocation of mine, because in forming an informed position on anything it is essential that you are able to discern when someone is attempting to whistle the wind up your posterior orifice!
OK,so who did you say was spit on? Verifiably spit on?
So now finally the TRUE feellings come out. They deserved it. Such as...'Straffing those innocent villagers with machine gun fire. How could they?'
There is a reason the old axiom of War is Hell still exists. It's man's ultimate folly to resolve differences with his fellow man, BUT until Man himself has elevated himself to a higher plane of being, meaning morality, it remains the last option. Deal with it!
If you strafe innocent villagers you deserve to be spit on. That was my point. Most didn't do things like that but there were more than a few.
Most did their job to the best of their ability in a totally messed up situation. But the poor leadership and motivation brought out the worst character traits in many people.
It means, as stated before, that you will accept nothing that does not support your revisionist historiandude agenda.
Even you should be able to figure that out.
Wait, asking that you folks actually document your claims means he will accept nothing? Don't you have to offer something for there to be a chance of acceptance?
Here's my simple advice for the two actual folks here who served in Vietnam and are still upset over their treatment when they got home: Get over it. The same applies to the rest in faux outrage camp who did not serve, have no one close to them who served in Vietnam and who have no idea if any soldier was ever spit upon.
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HistorianDude - An assist your way as I help answer my own question
