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nice slant...
liberal values embrace change moreso than conservative.. its proven point... but that draws into the question of whether the change is for the good or the better... raising taxes or wealth redistribution is not new or modern you're right.. but the reason for implementing it is to foster programs that bring the society as a whole to a new "progressed" point... rather than just the individual. It is the belief that if america is to really attain greatness, everyone must have access to the greatness, and have the dream available to them, rather than allowing "same old same old" to eventually pigeon hole generations into poverty. Social programs allow people at the lowest demographics to attain greatness. it is not meant to discredit anyone that pulls themselves out of it on their own. It is realistic and accurate that, while anyone who overcomes such obstacles is greatness at its best, MOST in that situation do not overcome such obstacles. And why should someone who is born into such be faced with such uphill battles it is not fair and it is certainly not civilized behaviour to treat it as such either.
redistribution of wealth has been tried, and failed. You do not end up bringing the poor to the middle, you end up bringing the middle and upper down to the poor so ALL suffer. Why bang your head against the wall again and again when it hurts.
its not redistribution of wealth in taking something away from someone who has earned it. Conservatives constatly keep saying this... Its ridiculous...
Problem with our system, our market, or COUNTRY is that many who do have all these millions are NOT earning it fairly and rightfully... and many people who ARE working hard and honestly are not seeing it pay off... THAT is the issue democrats and obama seek to address....
Its pretty simple.. If you're spreading these false misconceptions of "taking from the deserving self made rich... to give to the low life un-willing to work pieces of crap" it is clear you are in support of the protectionist agenda surrounding the fundamentals of a broken greedy unfair market...
which further leads me to believe you're either..
A. Rich and ignorant
B. Rich and a crook who is part of the problem
C. Middle class and ignorant drinking the Koolaid as they say..
or
D. a damn fool
its not redistribution of wealth in taking something away from someone who has earned it. Conservatives constatly keep saying this... Its ridiculous...
Problem with our system, our market, or COUNTRY is that many who do have all these millions are NOT earning it fairly and rightfully... and many people who ARE working hard and honestly are not seeing it pay off... THAT is the issue democrats and obama seek to address....
Its pretty simple.. If you're spreading these false misconceptions of "taking from the deserving self made rich... to give to the low life un-willing to work pieces of crap" it is clear you are in support of the protectionist agenda surrounding the fundamentals of a broken greedy unfair market...
which further leads me to believe you're either..
A. Rich and ignorant
B. Rich and a crook who is part of the problem
C. Middle class and ignorant drinking the Koolaid as they say..
or
D. a damn fool
Do you expect people to take you seriously?
If you don't agree with me, you're either wrong or an idiot... blah blah blah. Same old nonsense from way too many people on here. It's old and tired. If your argument doesn't have legs to stand on its own without reducing it to these petty diatribes, then please refrain from posting.
I don't think anyone really grasps these labels. Every conservative who defines themselves sounds reasonable and every liberal who defines themselves sounds reasonable as well. It's when the polar opposite defines the other side, that's when there's exaggeration and fabrication. I sit on the fence trying to make sense of both sides.
I still hold the view you cite though it almost exclusively applies to social conservatives, which are the ones I usually think of when I hear the term "conservative".
I agree definitions are slippery due to times changing and be it through devious manipulation or that of ignorance these definitions are adjusted for various (often self serving) purposes.
Though I took issue specifically with your description of traditional conservative stances being that of a "naive" or rather "inexperienced" view of society.
Change in society isn't always a good thing. Some changes are nothing more than an old failed philosophies hidden behind new words and calls of evolving times. There is nothing new in the "change" that has slowly occurred in society and traditional conservatives recognize this as a step backwards into another attempt at seeing a failed ideal brought to power.
These conservatives don't resist, escape or fight these changes because they lack understanding or are "stubborn" in their ways, but rather they understand the danger that these "progressive" changes create. The founders spoke of them and history documented them.
As a traditional conservative myself, I relate to what the founders warned about concerning virtue in its people and the need for that moral foundation to be solid in order for the layers of a just system can be applied. Without that foundation, it crumbles and falls. Within those basic principals are the building blocks to all aspects of life be it honesty, integrity, responsibility, justice, and so on. If you look to the problems in our government, these lack of qualities are evident. It doesn't matter which side of the fence you go to, the core foundations of these principals are fading and they are fading because the people are losing them as well, redefining them or rebelling against them.
It isn't that we are uninformed, unwilling to accept change, but rather we view the change as unhealthy for society. Each new practice of this "progressive" ideal has brought all of its failures with it, yet each time these failures play their part, the finger is pointed to the past as those who encourage the changes close their eyes and ears to the results of their actions in hopes that "someday it will work".
We understand, we just don't accept this change because we know it to be a proven failed direction.
its not redistribution of wealth in taking something away from someone who has earned it. Conservatives constatly keep saying this... Its ridiculous...
Problem with our system, our market, or COUNTRY is that many who do have all these millions are NOT earning it fairly and rightfully... and many people who ARE working hard and honestly are not seeing it pay off... THAT is the issue democrats and obama seek to address....
Its pretty simple.. If you're spreading these false misconceptions of "taking from the deserving self made rich... to give to the low life un-willing to work pieces of crap" it is clear you are in support of the protectionist agenda surrounding the fundamentals of a broken greedy unfair market...
which further leads me to believe you're either..
A. Rich and ignorant
B. Rich and a crook who is part of the problem
C. Middle class and ignorant drinking the Koolaid as they say..
or
D. a damn fool
Who decides what constitutes as "deserving"? You want to take stuff away from those who supposedly don't deserve it to those who are poor? Perhaps the poor don't deserve it, huh? Why are they poor? Are they uneducated? Lazy? Sick?
You don't have the right to determine who deserves this and that. If I wanted to pay you $100,000 a month just to post on this board, would you not take it since you feel it's undeserved??
its not redistribution of wealth in taking something away from someone who has earned it. Conservatives constatly keep saying this... Its ridiculous...
Problem with our system, our market, or COUNTRY is that many who do have all these millions are NOT earning it fairly and rightfully... and many people who ARE working hard and honestly are not seeing it pay off... THAT is the issue democrats and obama seek to address....
Its pretty simple.. If you're spreading these false misconceptions of "taking from the deserving self made rich... to give to the low life un-willing to work pieces of crap" it is clear you are in support of the protectionist agenda surrounding the fundamentals of a broken greedy unfair market...
which further leads me to believe you're either..
A. Rich and ignorant
B. Rich and a crook who is part of the problem
C. Middle class and ignorant drinking the Koolaid as they say..
or
D. a damn fool
wait a min. you are trying to actually tell me that taking money from a wealthy person that has worked very hard to earn that money, and giving it to someone else is NOT redistribution of wealth?
someone needs to look up the definition of redistribution.
redistribution of wealth has been tried, and failed. You do not end up bringing the poor to the middle, you end up bringing the middle and upper down to the poor so ALL suffer. Why bang your head against the wall again and again when it hurts.
the well connected still win. there is no such thing as socialism for the poor. those who make money from all of the subsidies provided to poor people are the real winners (the corporations). wonder why health care and college education is so expensive? because it is subsidized by the government. the market doesn't determine the price. the government fixes it so the well connected can transfer the wealth of the poor into the pockets of the Illuminati. Free markets people, not government extortion.
If you don't agree with me, you're either wrong or an idiot... blah blah blah. Same old nonsense from way too many people on here. It's old and tired. If your argument doesn't have legs to stand on its own without reducing it to these petty diatribes, then please refrain from posting.
Of course I expect people to take me seriously...
because people jump on bandwagons without really thinking about the issue... and if you don't like that.. then I'm sorry... If you don't like what I have to say.. then don't comment on it.. ignore it
Who decides what constitutes as "deserving"? You want to take stuff away from those who supposedly don't deserve it to those who are poor? Perhaps the poor don't deserve it, huh? Why are they poor? Are they uneducated? Lazy? Sick?
You don't have the right to determine who deserves this and that. If I wanted to pay you $100,000 a month just to post on this board, would you not take it since you feel it's undeserved??
exactly my point... redistribution of wealth happens all the time.. it happens in a free market, in a socialist society.. even in a communist country..
redistribution of wealth is just money going from one person to another...
Currently we see exec's walking away with 25 million dollars for a job poorly done..so.. he's rich.. is he deserving of it???? NO!..Is his secretary who makes 10 dollars per hour hoping and praying for a raise who is never late and always striving to do her best and gathering as much education for herself etc deserving of that 10 dollars per hour??? is she deserving of more?? those are the questions people need to think about when analyzing the current situation.. who's making these calls? why is it that poor performance is rewarded and EARNED and deserving.. when hers is not?? and it has become the norm.. so the distribution of wealth has gone from everyone else in the company to fund his large salary and bonus...
nobody likes that.. so now we think that ceo salaries should have limits.. and if its regulated by the government or the shareholders... that in itself is redistribution of wealth.. because its changing the NORM of how wealth is distributed... So to sit and paint with a broad brush about obama's "redistribution of wealth" scare tactic.. it is very ignorant and completely apparent someone is either ignorant of the issue... or drinking the koolaid...
If you want an example that might ring true for you... consider this economic collapse... you're sitting in your job that you've worked hard at for years or whatever may be the case.. you've hoped for advancement and raises...have you not been promoted or gotten a raise because you don't deserve it? and are the people at the top calling those shots in those positions because they deserve it and are more hard working than you? Or is it just a matter of them "putting in their time?" whatever the reason.. is it just? is it really truely a reflection of a free market? or is it cronyism? I rub your back.. you rub mine.. play the game and get ahead???
Nobody is saying that it is right to go down to ma and pa store on main street and take their hard earned money and give it to the homeless lazy drug addict...
Its about the fundamentals of the system.. its corrupt.. its NOT free.. its NOT consistant.... and that has formed a wealthy aristocracy in this country.. where there's people who have wealth and opportunity.. and people who do not.... fortunately enough for many.. they haven't been put in a situation where they've had reality slap them in the face and make them actually think about it all... But you can guarantee if an economic collapse happens... You're going to be out on your butt no matter how hard you've worked to get into that position.. and I would venture to say the ma and pa store that has always done well for themselves is going to face the same struggles.. I don't however think certain people at the top of this greedy corporate world which is always deemed as "capitalistic and fair and free market at its finest" are going to be hurting all that much..
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