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Old 04-17-2013, 08:02 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,118,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
That usually means that the individual has been arrested, and taken to a police station for questioning.

No it doesn't. It means as soon as anyone is taken into custody.
I'm sorry but you are completely wrong.

Miranda warnings only need to be read to an individual thats questioned. There are lots of people that get arrested, and even go to trial without ever having them read to you.

Miranda Rights: What Happens If Police Don't 'Read Your Rights' | Nolo.com
When the Miranda Warning Is Required

It doesn't matter whether an interrogation occurs in a jail, at the scene of a crime, on a busy downtown street, or the middle of an open field: If a person is in custody (deprived of his or her freedom of action in any significant way), the police must read them their Miranda rights if they want to question the suspect and use the suspect's answers as evidence at trial.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Dublin, CA
3,807 posts, read 4,276,406 times
Reputation: 3984
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
I'm sorry but you are completely wrong.

Miranda warnings only need to be read to an individual thats questioned. There are lots of people that get arrested, and even go to trial without ever having them read to you.

Miranda Rights: What Happens If Police Don't 'Read Your Rights' | Nolo.com
When the Miranda Warning Is Required

It doesn't matter whether an interrogation occurs in a jail, at the scene of a crime, on a busy downtown street, or the middle of an open field: If a person is in custody (deprived of his or her freedom of action in any significant way), the police must read them their Miranda rights if they want to question the suspect and use the suspect's answers as evidence at trial.
Yes, and this is the problem with trying to discuss Miranda with the general public or, for that matter, anyone else. They have no real clue as to what their "rights" are. They scream they do. They protest they do. However, the vast majority of persons in this country think their "rights" come from television.

In fact, I bet YOU and hundreds of others, what their "Miranda" rights are. Truly and actually. What can a police officer ask, WHEN (more important), and what is admissable in a court of law. 90%+ of the people have no clue and cannot tell me this.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:13 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
Pre-arrest silence can not be seen as self incrimination anymore than stating verbally that you refuse to speak because of the possibility of self incrimination...To remain silent prior the arrest is an unspoken statement that clearly communicates your intentions to avoid self incrimination. As soon as there is a formal arrest then the person is informed of their rights- Now if the suspect suspects that he is going to be arrested - he has the right to a pre-emptive action of exercising his rights early- Why is the court even thinking about this? It's clear you have the right to remain silent before you are read your rights...rights do not suddenly come into being with the authorities state you have them- They are enshrined in the individual and not handed out like candy.
Why is the court thinking about doing what? I'm not sure exactly what you are arguing for.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:16 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
I'm sorry but you are completely wrong.

Miranda warnings only need to be read to an individual thats questioned. There are lots of people that get arrested, and even go to trial without ever having them read to you.

Miranda Rights: What Happens If Police Don't 'Read Your Rights' | Nolo.com
When the Miranda Warning Is Required

It doesn't matter whether an interrogation occurs in a jail, at the scene of a crime, on a busy downtown street, or the middle of an open field: If a person is in custody (deprived of his or her freedom of action in any significant way), the police must read them their Miranda rights if they want to question the suspect and use the suspect's answers as evidence at trial.
LOL, well yes, I suppose if they want to arrest you and never ask you any sort of question they wouldn't have to read you your rights but I can't see that ever happening.

I don't think your initial claim is anywhere close to correct though. They are going to ask you your side of things and they are going to protect their ability to use anything you might decide to say, questioned or not.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,564 posts, read 12,822,450 times
Reputation: 9400
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Is this Jeopardy?
No it is a very simple matter - that can be shown in one question- Does the citizen have these rights to begin with or only after being informed of them? The person most certainly has the right to remain silent prior the arrest - because what is said prior to the arrest can contain self incriminatory "evidence" that can be used against him later. No matter what state the citizen is in as far as liberty - whether it be in a state of liberty or arrest. The right to self protection from authorities exists on both sides of that line.

"You have the right to remain silent" That is NOT where this right begins. It begins prior to the arrest. So he court had better figure out one thing....Do citizens have rights or do they only have rights once granted the right? That is to say that no one has rights unless they are given at the leisure of the government. That would be to say that America is NOT a free country unless the authorities say it is that day - then on other days they can state that Americans are free......you can't have it both ways.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,872 posts, read 8,095,507 times
Reputation: 2971
The first words out of your mouth if an officer (of any branch/municipality/authority) asks you a question in regards to an investigation, case, or action is:

"I invoke my 5th amendment rights"...and then SHUT YOUR MOUTH.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:26 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
No it is a very simple matter - that can be shown in one question- Does the citizen have these rights to begin with or only after being informed of them?
I have not seen anyone argue that they do not have them before being informed of them.

Quote:
The person most certainly has the right to remain silent prior the arrest - because what is said prior to the arrest can contain self incriminatory "evidence" that can be used against him later. No matter what state the citizen is in as far as liberty - whether it be in a state of liberty or arrest. The right to self protection from authorities exists on both sides of that line.

"You have the right to remain silent" That is NOT where this right begins. It begins prior to the arrest. So he court had better figure out one thing....Do citizens have rights or do they only have rights once granted the right? That is to say that no one has rights unless they are given at the leisure of the government. That would be to say that America is NOT a free country unless the authorities say it is that day - then on other days they can state that Americans are free......you can't have it both ways.
Maybe I missed it but I don't see where the court is ruling they do not or even questioning that. The question is if a defendant freely answers some questions and then refuses to answer another, while that being his right, can a prosecutor inform a jury of this.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,580,750 times
Reputation: 9030
I have cochlear implants. Without them on I hear nothing at all. If the police questioned me about anything I would turn them off.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,564 posts, read 12,822,450 times
Reputation: 9400
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Why is the court thinking about doing what? I'm not sure exactly what you are arguing for.
Not making an argument. I am making a statement. The court should not even involve itself is such a non -issue. The simple layman can figure this one out with out experts. Silence is not an indicator or evidence of guilt. How can it be - it is mute. No evidence can be gathered out of silence. Isn't that the question here. That a man was convicted because he was quiet prior his arrest and that silence was used as evidence that convicted him....insane.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:50 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,118,301 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
LOL, well yes, I suppose if they want to arrest you and never ask you any sort of question they wouldn't have to read you your rights but I can't see that ever happening.

I don't think your initial claim is anywhere close to correct though. They are going to ask you your side of things and they are going to protect their ability to use anything you might decide to say, questioned or not.
It happens all the time that they arrest you and dont question you.

Domestic cases are one such example.. You get arrested, thrown in jail, and then you talk to them at the hearing..

DUI cases would also come to mind.
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