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Old 05-12-2013, 11:20 AM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
1,201 posts, read 1,925,188 times
Reputation: 989

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Quote:
Milton Friedman, who died last week at 94, was the patron saint of small-government conservatism. Conservatives who invoke his name in defense of Social Security privatization and other cutbacks in the social safety net might thus be surprised to learn that he was also the architect of the most successful social welfare program of all time.

Market forces can accomplish wonderful things, he realized, but they cannot ensure a distribution of income that enables all citizens to meet basic economic needs. His proposal, which he called the negative income tax, was to replace the multiplicity of existing welfare programs with a single cash transfer — say, $6,000 — to every citizen. A family of four with no market income would thus receive an annual payment from the I.R.S. of $24,000. For each dollar the family then earned, this payment would be reduced by some fraction — perhaps 50 percent. A family of four earning $12,000 a year, for example, would receive a net supplement of $18,000 (the initial $24,000 less the $6,000 tax on its earnings).
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/23/bu...cene.html?_r=0

Friedman contended at the time that simply replacing all the bureaucratic heavy welfare programs at the time and replacing them with a basic income for EVERY CITIZEN, would pay for itself. Any thoughts? Good idea or bad?

More info on basic income: Thinking Utopian: How about a universal basic income?

Last edited by soanchorless; 05-12-2013 at 11:29 AM..
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:26 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
It's how I've argued welfare should be handled for years. As it is now there is a disadvantage to those who want to better themselves.

Make $11,900 and you get food stamps. Make $12,000 and you lose them. The entire idea of welfare is based upon a system that rewards not bettering your situation.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720
And what happns when they spend that basic income on other things and then have no money for food or housing ?

We see that today..give them SNAP and we still have to feed the kids in school with no questions asked.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:32 AM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
1,201 posts, read 1,925,188 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
And what happns when they spend that basic income on other things and then have no money for food or housing ?

We see that today..give them SNAP and we still have to feed the kids in school with no questions asked.
That is a good question. This was tried in a Namibian village, and within a year, employment was up 12%, crime was down 42%, children were better fed, more children were going to school, several villagers started profitable businesses that could replace the basic income if it is ever taken away, yet the white farmers in the area were still convinced that the poor were abusing the money they were given:

A New Approach to Aid: How a Basic Income Program Saved a Namibian Village - SPIEGEL ONLINE

It's hard to say what the poor in this country would do, but if people who were labeled too lost to be helped could turn that money into good, I think most people could too.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Texas
44,259 posts, read 64,375,553 times
Reputation: 73937
Any time you start taking away $$ for income earned, you will have people who will never go get a job.
Or who won't report their earnings.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:36 AM
 
1,520 posts, read 1,874,143 times
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It would depend on what it cost provide a person/family with the basics of life and a few basic luxuries that are pretty universal such as a phone and very basic cable TV. Other than that, shelter, utilities, food and medical care should be things every American has. These are things provided to the worst of us who are killers and child rapist in prison.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:36 AM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
1,201 posts, read 1,925,188 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Any time you start taking away $$ for income earned, you will have people who will never go get a job.
Or who won't report their earnings.
We already do that, and there are more people applying for jobs than there are jobs available. What's your solution?
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by soanchorless View Post
That is a good question. This was tried in a Namibian village, and within a year, employment was up 12%, crime was down 42%, children were better fed, more children were going to school, several villagers started profitable businesses that could replace the basic income if it is ever taken away, yet the white farmers in the area were still convinced that the poor were abusing the money they were given:

A New Approach to Aid: How a Basic Income Program Saved a Namibian Village - SPIEGEL ONLINE

It's hard to say what the poor in this country would do, but if people who were labeled too lost to be helped could turn that money into good, I think most people could too.
You can't look at Namibia and say it would work here.

Go hand out that money in Chicago and see if the crime goes down.

We have examples..we have SNAP yet kids are coming to school and needing to be fed 3 times a day.
Where's the questioning about what that SNAP money is being spent on ?
Lifeine had 41% of their subscribers not qualifying for the free phones after an audit was done.
The IRS identified nearly $2 billion in child tax credit fraud in 2011 returns.

I have little faith people will change.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:38 AM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
1,201 posts, read 1,925,188 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
You can't look at Namibia and say it would work here.

Go hand out that money in Chicago and see if the crime goes down.
I'd like to try it and find out!
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:41 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Any time you start taking away $$ for income earned, you will have people who will never go get a job.
Or who won't report their earnings.
I posted why it wouldn't. If you lose less than you gain the incentive is there.
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