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Old 11-14-2013, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,544,683 times
Reputation: 24780

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Something has gone horribly wrong in the US over the past three decades. I can't put a finger on a single cause and I suspect it's a combination of things like mandatory sentencing together with "privatization" of the prison system.

But we've become the world's jailer. Back in the 50s and 60s when I was a schoolboy, I recall teachers telling the class that one of the things that made America so much better than the communist bloc (USSR and China) was that they had so much of their populations incarcerated. Fifty years later, we now lead the world, with Russia and China far behind us.

Mandatory sentences put nonviolent offenders in prison for long periods, but what's the advantage to society?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/14/op...f=opinion&_r=0

Privatization shifts taxpayer dollars to political insiders who get the contracts to operate prisons built by tax dollars. It also encourages political maneuvering to keep inmates jailed longer to drive up the profit margins for these "corporations." It also leads to relatively minor nonviolent crimes being reclassified as felonies.

List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

United States incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Meanwhile, has our society become safer and less violent?

I think it's time we step back and reassess this whole issue.
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Old 11-14-2013, 06:57 AM
 
Location: England
26,272 posts, read 8,431,258 times
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You are right, it is shocking the amount of Americans in jail. I read somewhere that privately run jails are promised plenty of people to keep their profits up. It can't be a good thing to lock up so many people. They struggle to find work after leaving jail, and their police record follows them for life.

I used to think many years ago, as I listened to the propaganda spewed out by governments about drug misuse, "oh yes, lock 'em up, that'll teach them." But, the illegal use of drugs is worse than ever. I saw on the news this morning, Afghanistan is producing more heroin than ever before. Jailing people for using drugs is, I believe a waste of time and money. We have been locking people up for many years now.... it isn't working, and has cost taxpayers all over the world a fortune.

But, our political leaders refuse to think of any other way to tackle this problem, so we carry on jailing people. The only winners by doing this seems to be the lawyers and private jails.

I saw a thread a few days ago titled something like '1 in 4 Americans has a police record.' Something here is wrong people. May be folks are being arrested unfairly, and without good reason? Do Americans feel safer with such a large percentage of your population in jail?
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:08 AM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,499,682 times
Reputation: 11351
It's because of the exponential growth of government, making more and more things illegal that are no business of the government.
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:09 AM
 
13,694 posts, read 9,011,664 times
Reputation: 10411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
Something has gone horribly wrong in the US over the past three decades. I can't put a finger on a single cause and I suspect it's a combination of things like mandatory sentencing together with "privatization" of the prison system.

But we've become the world's jailer. Back in the 50s and 60s when I was a schoolboy, I recall teachers telling the class that one of the things that made America so much better than the communist bloc (USSR and China) was that they had so much of their populations incarcerated. Fifty years later, we now lead the world, with Russia and China far behind us.

Mandatory sentences put nonviolent offenders in prison for long periods, but what's the advantage to society?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/14/op...f=opinion&_r=0

Privatization shifts taxpayer dollars to political insiders who get the contracts to operate prisons built by tax dollars. It also encourages political maneuvering to keep inmates jailed longer to drive up the profit margins for these "corporations." It also leads to relatively minor nonviolent crimes being reclassified as felonies.

List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

United States incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Meanwhile, has our society become safer and less violent?

I think it's time we step back and reassess this whole issue.
A good post. It is indeed a sobering thought that these private prisons (I believe there are three major ones) spends millions of dollars on lobbying efforts to thwart efforts to lessen the prison population. Indeed, I had read somewhere recently that the prison lobby is a main force behind keeping marijuana illegal (federal level). The illegals also keep the profits rolling in.

I have long been against having 'private' prisons. It is the State (or Federal Government) that tries and achieves a conviction of a criminal, and it should be the State of Federal government that owns and runs the prisons.

What next? Will the private prison corporations figure out that running a prison is cheaper in China or Mexico, and lobby to have Americans sentenced to prison sent overseas?
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,544,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legalsea View Post

What next? Will the private prison corporations figure out that running a prison is cheaper in China or Mexico, and lobby to have Americans sentenced to prison sent overseas?
A possibility I hadn't considered, but it's probably very real.
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:43 AM
 
10,545 posts, read 13,587,085 times
Reputation: 2823
I do think we are too eager to put people in jail and a lot of people go that could be better managed elsewhere. I also think that this question should be accompanied by wondering why so many people are breaking the law. That question is too uncomfortable for us as a society at this point.
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,998 posts, read 12,938,715 times
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The issue is not addressed because it has been mostly minorities that have felt the wrath of the ever-growing war on "drugs" and the private prison industrial complex.

These Prison Corporations successfully lobby for more and stricter laws and are guaranteed a numerical population. The War on "Drugs" is fought mostly in deindustrialized urban minority communities that have little resources to fight the judicial system. This disgusting epidemic will finally be addressed when the incarceration rate for white folk goes through the roof-which does seem to be happening.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:29 AM
 
Location: England
26,272 posts, read 8,431,258 times
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Some time in the distance past, our leaders decided that some drugs would be made illegal, and people punished for using or selling them. Films were made with titles like 'Reefer Madness' to try and demonize drugs like weed. America banned the world's favourite drug alcohol almost 100 years ago. Folks were punished for drinking booze. That didn't work out well did it. It did make criminals like Al Capone rich. It's a similar story now with drugs.

Illegal drug use alone, harms no one but the user. It's all the criminals fighting over turf and profits, and addicts stealing from, and mugging folks to get money for drugs that causes all the carnage. The answer of course, is lock 'em up at great cost. So, they get locked up..... jails fill..... build more is the cry, but do it as cheaply as possible. Well, lets get free enterprise involved, and cut costs. But private jail builders want guarantees good profit is to be made. Easy, no problem, say the authorities, we'll make sure you get plenty of 'product.'

Well, over 2 million people locked up in US jails, at massive cost, with a large percentage there because of involvement with drugs, one way or another. It is madness!! Many people know it, but no one with the power to change things seriously considers it. The public have been getting the same old propaganda for so many years.

Of course violent people need to be locked up, without question. But surely the US people should be questioning the massive jail population, and why people are being locked up. After completing their sentence, many struggle to return to normal life, and find a job. Lots fail, and end up returning to jail. I'm not talking about being soft on crime, but at what the authorities decide ARE crimes.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:38 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,896 posts, read 11,991,168 times
Reputation: 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
Some time in the distance past, our leaders decided that some drugs would be made illegal, and people punished for using or selling them. Films were made with titles like 'Reefer Madness' to try and demonize drugs like weed. America banned the world's favourite drug alcohol almost 100 years ago. Folks were punished for drinking booze. That didn't work out well did it. It did make criminals like Al Capone rich. It's a similar story now with drugs.

Illegal drug use alone, harms no one but the user. It's all the criminals fighting over turf and profits, and addicts stealing from, and mugging folks to get money for drugs that causes all the carnage. The answer of course, is lock 'em up at great cost. So, they get locked up..... jails fill..... build more is the cry, but do it as cheaply as possible. Well, lets get free enterprise involved, and cut costs. But private jail builders want guarantees good profit is to be made. Easy, no problem, say the authorities, we'll make sure you get plenty of 'product.'

Well, over 2 million people locked up in US jails, at massive cost, with a large percentage there because of involvement with drugs, one way or another. It is madness!! Many people know it, but no one with the power to change things seriously considers it. The public have been getting the same old propaganda for so many years.

Of course violent people need to be locked up, without question. But surely the US people should be questioning the massive jail population, and why people are being locked up. After completing their sentence, many struggle to return to normal life, and find a job. Lots fail, and end up returning to jail. I'm not talking about being soft on crime, but at what the authorities decide ARE crimes.

It's a vicious cycle. A non-violent offender gets locked up for say possession, or distribution of drugs, and gets mixed in with hardcore criminals. They then as you say try to return to normal life, but do not really get a true second chance, are denied employment, and then at times out of desparation end up getting into real crimes.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:56 AM
 
7,006 posts, read 6,995,315 times
Reputation: 7060
A few things can explain the mass incarceration-

The War on Drugs which quickly devolved into a war on black people smoking crack.

The 'three strikes and you're out' law adopted by many politicians who wanted to give the impression they were tough on crime.

Society's paranoid, knee-jerk reaction to horrible (and rare) crimes that are hyped by the media and cause a flurry of "Megan's Law"-type bad laws which only end up labeling many innocent people as 'predators' and causing Americans to become even more paranoid of one another.

Jails have become the new asylums to house the mentally ill homeless. We used to have mental institutions to house these sorry folks but liberal progressives thought it was barbaric and inhumane to hold these sick people against their wills, so we let all the mentally ill out free on the street where they are no longer cared for and they up end up harassing, harming, and even killing innocent people. Then they are sent to prison along with the other criminals where they are held in solitary confinement and still don't receive any treatment for their mental illnesses.

Lastly, an uncomfortable truth for many- The downside of diversity.
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