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Revisiting this thread, I have a couple of observations.
1) Only the most ignorant of people judge the whole of a race by its worst segment. As a black man who is not ignorant, why should you care what ignorant people think?
2) Every race has a segment that is as ignorant and backwards as the worst segment of the black race that you speak of here. In fact they're worst because society gives them far more consideration. They have greater advantages, historically so, and as a matter of course, simply because their skin isn't black. Yet they choose to be THE most ignorant members of our society. Why just be mad at those in your race who are bad, when the people you worry about who are stereotyping you, are worse and THE problem?
3) Whatever level of ignorance these problematic blacks you speak of may represent, they can't compare to the supreme ignorance of those who are racist and those who stereotype. These are the Boehners, McConnells, Cantors, Ryans, Pauls, Bachmanns, Palins, Strom Thurmonds, the Jesse Helms', Romneys, Perrys, Gingrichs, Hannitys, Limbaughs, Becks, Coulters, the conservatives/neocons/klan/tea baggers/GOPers/Republicans. They are the same people who declared OJ to be guilty before proven innocent, and GZ to be innocent before being arrested. Their judgment is so flawed that they thought Bush would make a fine president. Why should you care what these pathetic people think of you or any black person? They are just flat out pathetic.
4) I think you should tell you sons to be themselves, associate with those who judge them by the content of their character, to strive for all that is high and noble, to embrace high educational acheivement, and to feel a great sense of pride in being a member of a race that has endured more adversity and overcome more ignorance than any other race has ever been called upon to do. Here, there are plenty of examples of fine people who represent this view. These people don't have to be black either, they come in all races. You can start through with this great President Obama and his fine family. Contrast him with any current Conservative for a good laugh.
5) There are millions of fine people in this country. They voted for President Obama. Focus on them and tell your sons to do likewise. They still must work twice as hard to get half as much.
You make some valid points. but again, black men are the ones targeted as criminal by fearful people who follow FBI stats and media portrayal of black men. I can't change that, nor am I going to try to not act like it doesn't exist because it is a reality for black males in this country.
I agree with you about telling my sons to be themselves. But at the same time, they, like me are constantly tearing down the stereotypes. Now get this, my 22 year old son has been told, by some of his black friends, that he doesn't act like a black dude. What does that mean? My son is black, he happens to have educated parents who have taught him how to use standard English at home and in public. His skin is dark, making him a black man. But, he was offended because, to him, that meant that he has to use slang, non standard English and every other word is a B or Hoe in it. Also, because he doesn't use the slang lingo as they do nor hold his penis when he's talking, some think he's gay. So that's another whole talk show about black masculinity and what defines that in black culture. So again this is much bigger that many of our own people want to accept or dialogue about.
It's just sad that on one hand we have our own blacks defining how black people should act or worse defining who's black or not black enough to be accepted by their own, then on the other hand, we have others who expect black people to act in a stereotypical way. I just throw up my hands and go, I am who I am, and if you don't like it,then that's your problem not mine. That's what I have told my boys as well.
get this, my 22 year old son has been told, by some of his black friends, that he doesn't act like a black dude. What does that mean? My son is black, he happens to have educated parents who have taught him how to use standard English at home and in public. His skin is dark, making him a black man. But, he was offended because, to him, that meant that he has to use slang, non standard English and every other word is a B or Hoe in it. Also, because he doesn't use the slang lingo as they do nor hold his penis when he's talking, some think he's gay. So that's another whole talk show about black masculinity and what defines that in black culture. So again this is much bigger that many of our own people want to accept or dialogue about.
It's just sad that on one hand we have our own blacks defining how black people should act or worse defining who's black or not black enough to be accepted by their own, then on the other hand, we have others who expect black people to act in a stereotypical way. I just throw up my hands and go, I am who I am, and if you don't like it,then that's your problem not mine. That's what I have told my boys as well.
Several colleagues who are AA have mentioned of similar prejudice within the AA community. They've been accused of being "sell-outs" because they talk "white," speak in an educated parlance, and don't code-shift. They too were all raised by educated parents. They've dealt with it by following the "birds of a feather" philosophy. That is, they only run in circles with other educated people [regardless of race.] They avoid toxic people.
So you admit to judging all Black people based on the worst of theBlack population. You know what that sounds like to me? Consider this. I
went to a middle school and high school that was majority White(it still is
today). I was tormented alot by White students, mostly boys. The girls tended to
be alot nicer. I've been assaulted by some White youths before. One or two
students have also threatened my life. One student claimed he was going to
"lynch" me. I don't go judging the entire White population based on the
stupidity of some students I went to middle school and high school with. What you are suggesting would be like me saying "I avoid White people" because of stuff that has happened to me.
WTF!!! Where did I say this??? What I said was that I am constantly targeted by blacks at work, so I don't generally seek them out as friends away from work. I can spend my free time with whomever I choose. If you choose to avoid white people, so be it!!! Choose whoever you want to have as friends. Have white friends or don't have white friends. I have no say in the matter, just like you have no say in who I choose as friends, and that doesn't make either of us racists!
You make some valid points. but again, black men are the ones targeted as criminal by fearful people who follow FBI stats and media portrayal of black men. I can't change that, nor am I going to try to not act like it doesn't exist because it is a reality for black males in this country.
I agree with you about telling my sons to be themselves. But at the same time, they, like me are constantly tearing down the stereotypes. Now get this, my 22 year old son has been told, by some of his black friends, that he doesn't act like a black dude. What does that mean? My son is black, he happens to have educated parents who have taught him how to use standard English at home and in public. His skin is dark, making him a black man. But, he was offended because, to him, that meant that he has to use slang, non standard English and every other word is a B or Hoe in it. Also, because he doesn't use the slang lingo as they do nor hold his penis when he's talking, some think he's gay. So that's another whole talk show about black masculinity and what defines that in black culture. So again this is much bigger that many of our own people want to accept or dialogue about.
It's just sad that on one hand we have our own blacks defining how black people should act or worse defining who's black or not black enough to be accepted by their own, then on the other hand, we have others who expect black people to act in a stereotypical way. I just throw up my hands and go, I am who I am, and if you don't like it,then that's your problem not mine. That's what I have told my boys as well.
Then your son should not want to hang around regressive people with that mindset, black or otherwise. I laugh at people that think because you are black you have to act a certain way.
You're right, but it is turning full circle now and we have white folks and some black who are scared zhitless of young black males. Is this what you want? I am beginning to wonder if this is some kind of payback for the "Klan" days. It is human nature to be wary of all, it is part of the self defense mechanism not so much racism. If you see a pride of lions and you know that one is "human friendly", but you don't know which one, I would think you would be fearful of all just as a precaution. Just the same when I see a group of black young men or white young men for that matter.
I sometimes wonder where some of you live. I'm a white woman, and I don't think I've ever been afraid of a group of black or white young men in my life. I mean, what is this fear? Like the whole pack is going to run after you or what? I just don't get it. Young black men have more reason to fear other young black men than I do, and the same with young white men.
WTF!!! Where did I say this??? What I said was that I am constantly targeted by blacks at work, so I don't generally seek them out as friends away from work. I can spend my free time with whomever I choose. If you choose to avoid white people, so be it!!! Choose whoever you want to have as friends. Have white friends or don't have white friends. I have no say in the matter, just like you have no say in who I choose as friends, and that doesn't make either of us racists!
What I'm saying is this. I've been abused by some White people in my life. I don't avoid White because of that. You have freedom of association. However, what I'm saying is that I don't get your thinking. I've been exposed to some abuse from Whites, and yet, I don't go on avoidance. I've made White friends and have contact with some of them still today. I have no say over who you choose for friends. I'm saying the thought process doesn't make sense. I've also dealt with alot of crap at the hands of some Black people. So has my sister. However, I don't go avoiding Black people like my sister has. It's her choice not to have any Black friends. However, I find it quite sad.
You make some valid points. but again, black men are the ones targeted as criminal by fearful people who follow FBI stats and media portrayal of black men. I can't change that, nor am I going to try to not act like it doesn't exist because it is a reality for black males in this country.
I agree with you about telling my sons to be themselves. But at the same time, they, like me are constantly tearing down the stereotypes. Now get this, my 22 year old son has been told, by some of his black friends, that he doesn't act like a black dude. What does that mean? My son is black, he happens to have educated parents who have taught him how to use standard English at home and in public. His skin is dark, making him a black man. But, he was offended because, to him, that meant that he has to use slang, non standard English and every other word is a B or Hoe in it. Also, because he doesn't use the slang lingo as they do nor hold his penis when he's talking, some think he's gay. So that's another whole talk show about black masculinity and what defines that in black culture. So again this is much bigger that many of our own people want to accept or dialogue about.
It's just sad that on one hand we have our own blacks defining how black people should act or worse defining who's black or not black enough to be accepted by their own, then on the other hand, we have others who expect black people to act in a stereotypical way. I just throw up my hands and go, I am who I am, and if you don't like it,then that's your problem not mine. That's what I have told my boys as well.
It's a curse many of us have been bearing for a while. I'm a young Black man and I've been told the same thing. I've been told that I don't "act Black", and not just by some Black people. Some White people have told me the same thing. I've been made fun of for it at times. I remember a few White students basically asked me to "do the Carlton dance"(reference to Carlton Banks from Fresh Prince of Bel-Air). It is disturbing, but not at all a surprise anymore.
I think for educated Black men, it's a catch 22. On the one hand, we can't control what some hood rat does. We can only control our behavior. On the other hand, whatever we do right, the stereotypes of Black men being criminals always gets more attention.
It's a curse many of us have been bearing for a while. I'm a young Black man and I've been told the same thing. I've been told that I don't "act Black", and not just by some Black people. Some White people have told me the same thing. I've been made fun of for it at times. I remember a few White students basically asked me to "do the Carlton dance"(reference to Carlton Banks from Fresh Prince of Bel-Air). It is disturbing, but not at all a surprise anymore.
I think for educated Black men, it's a catch 22. On the one hand, we can't control what some hood rat does. We can only control our behavior. On the other hand, whatever we do right, the stereotypes of Black men being criminals always gets more attention.
I have to agree with this. I'm a black woman and although black women don't have the exact same stereotypes as black men, we are also criminalized AND often thought of as overly aggressive, quarrelsome and whorish.
I can not tell you how many times people have rolled their eyes, and became generally irate, after I informed them that I don't believe in premarital sex. I always conduct myself like a lady, I rarely wear pants. Also, many seem to act very surprised when I'm extra polite and refuse to fall into the 'angry' black woman stereotype.
My advice is to remain true to yourself and never become a caricature of who you are.
I have to agree with this. I'm a black woman and although black women don't have the exact same stereotypes as black men, we are also criminalized AND often thought of as overly aggressive, quarrelsome and whorish.
I can not tell you how many times people have rolled their eyes, and became generally irate, after I informed them that I don't believe in premarital sex. I always conduct myself like a lady, I rarely wear pants. Also, many seem to act very surprised when I'm extra polite and refuse to fall into the 'angry' black woman stereotype.
My advice is to remain true to yourself and never become a caricature of who you are.
It's a catch 22 on both sides. It's a matter of one wanting to just be themselves. All we can do is be ourselves. What alot of this shows is that prejudice hasn't gone away. On one hand, there are Black people who contribute to the stereotype. On the other hand, there are those who will hate Black people no matter what. People like you, me, and the OP don't contribute to the stereotype.
The best we can do with the power that we have is this. It's fight or flight situation. We can try and talk some sense into those persons who contribute to the stereotypes and tell them to stop, and to call them out on their behavior. It is up to that person to listen, which is the hard part. Or, we can do what Chris Rock talked about and vote with our feet. Alot of us already have voted with our feet and fled a toxic environment. Ultimately, we can control ourselves and be true to ourselves as you said. The best we can do is try and make liars out of any person who thinks according to a stereotype.
You make some valid points. but again, black men are the ones targeted as criminal by fearful people who follow FBI stats and media portrayal of black men. I can't change that, nor am I going to try to not act like it doesn't exist because it is a reality for black males in this country.
I agree with you about telling my sons to be themselves. But at the same time, they, like me are constantly tearing down the stereotypes. Now get this, my 22 year old son has been told, by some of his black friends, that he doesn't act like a black dude. What does that mean? My son is black, he happens to have educated parents who have taught him how to use standard English at home and in public. His skin is dark, making him a black man. But, he was offended because, to him, that meant that he has to use slang, non standard English and every other word is a B or Hoe in it. Also, because he doesn't use the slang lingo as they do nor hold his penis when he's talking, some think he's gay. So that's another whole talk show about black masculinity and what defines that in black culture. So again this is much bigger that many of our own people want to accept or dialogue about.
It's just sad that on one hand we have our own blacks defining how black people should act or worse defining who's black or not black enough to be accepted by their own, then on the other hand, we have others who expect black people to act in a stereotypical way. I just throw up my hands and go, I am who I am, and if you don't like it,then that's your problem not mine. That's what I have told my boys as well.
I can understand that happening, because my youngest son does not act like a thug or a "studio negro" but I never heard him complain about others teasing him about it only because he only associates with those who respects who he is. As far as our family is concerned, they never questioned his "blackness" because they know how what I went through growing up and they realize that would never let my sons be ignorant of their history but yet let them still be themselves.
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What I said was that I am constantly targeted by blacks at work, so I don't generally seek them out as friends away from work. I can spend my free time with whomever I choose.
It is human nature to be wary of all, it is part of the self defense mechanism not so much racism. If you see a pride of lions and you know that one is "human friendly", but you don't know which one, I would think you would be fearful of all just as a precaution. Just the same when I see a group of black young men or white young men for that matter.