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We may be at a tipping point in the USA with all the goodies at our feet we seem overwhelmed with vandals, brats in restaurants, graffiti, kids with guns and $300 sneakers running wild. Our children, even the poor ones tend to have every gadget, clothing item known to man and throw fits when it isn't served on a platter immediately. Not all kids are this way, but sadly they seem to multiply with time. My husband and I came from humble beginnings with blue collar parents living in small 900 sq ft homes with one bathroom. I remember how excited I was when my father took me to a nice restaurant and could hardly believe my good fortune to get a steak.
I do not hate children or teens, I raised 3 of them. I do not however want to live with them nor eat at expensive places with them if they are acting out...excuse me...expressing themselves.
Babies are cool, as long as they are quiet. Toddlertards and up to age 18 should be banned in most restaurants.....excluding places like Crapdonalds and other FF junk.
I have no issue with restaurants banning kids at any or all hours. It's their business and they can do as they like. I wish other businesses would ban oldsters the same way. Why the heck do they need to go to the grocery store en mass via the retirement home bus on Saturday? They don't have jobs, they can shop on Tuesday. All those walkers and scooters over crowd the aisles and make it impossible to get by. I like oldsters, but they sure are annoying when they get out during hours that should be reserved for people who work M-F.
Disruptive behavior occurs often enough now that restaurants are banning kids.
You read about complaints from teachers about behavior problems in the schools.
You read about youth gangs rampaging through neighborhoods and stores beating up people and taking whatever they want off shelves.
And some still come back with "just a small number...."
That "just a small number" has grown big enough and has occurred often enough that some establishments have put their foot down.
Eh...I have two kids, one 11 and one 4 and both know how to behave in public but I don't care if a restaurant says "no kids." We just won't go there.
And FWIW, I do think that most parents my age (I am a Gen Xer) and younger are WAY too loose with their children. I also feel that the "don't-spank-cause-it-will-ruin-you-child's-life" mantra and the "self-esteem" crap espoused on us by our parents (the boomers and hippies) are the reasons why kids are so...I will say active and out of control now more than they used to be.
I am pretty old school as I spent a lot of time growing up with my grandma and she was respectful to me as a child - never yelled at me, never even spanked me (but my brother and cousins did get "whuppins" cause they didn't know how to not do something she told them not to do, and she would give you a warning the first time but after that, you would "get it." I always listened and never "got it." lol). But she didn't play and she was not my friend and I knew not to misbehave as I would shame the family lol. I truly believed this too and I frequently was told, along with my cousins/siblings that we better not "be out acting a fool and embarrassing the family." I took that seriously. Kids were to play outside and socialize with other kids, not adults and as an old school parent, I view that - the fact that too many parents "play" with their kids and not let their kids play with neighborhood kids and the fact that they speak to their children as if the children are adults and have a say in the way the day will go, as the reasons why so many misbehave so much.
And FWIW, I know a lot of older parents. You all fail to realize that women over the age of 40 have more kids than they used to as so many women delay child bearing in order to fulfill career goals or to find the perfect mate. Women have more choices now-a-days and that is great but the worse acting kids I see are the ones of 40+ year old moms who have toddlers. They seem to be really tired, and rightly so IMO as I am in my 30s and am happy I don't have a toddler anymore. My 4 year old is really mature and never tantrumed or anything like my son did, who I had when I was in my 20s, he was hard to keep up with and control back then. I can't imagine dealing with a child like him in my 40s. I know women dealing with the same behavior and I do feel bad for them because they are tired, but really, I think they need to do what I did and put the hammer down. My son is a great kid, but he was basically on lock down from 2-4 years old. I hardly took him anywhere and I made sure he knew it was because he had a tendency not to control himself. I remember on his 3rd birthday I told him I wanted to take him to the zoo. He had a habit of whining/complaining/tantruming when we went "fun" places because he wanted something I wouldn't buy him or couldn't buy him as we didn't have much money back then. I let him know up front that I would take him, but that if he even complained that we would leave immediately, and as a 3 year old, newly 3, he never said a word of complaint and only spoke throughout the day about how much fun he had and ever since then, I never had a problem with him out in public. I would have never taken him to a nice, expensive restaurant. He would have bothered people. I wouldn't even take my 4 year old now even though she is a miss priss, because she might have a bad day, especially if it is past her normal bed time of 8pm, she goes into a nutty behavior spell when she is tired and even though it isn't the screaming type, only the goofy type, I'm sure other people don't want to deal with her nuttiness.
I also do think too many parents want to be their kids' friend. I don't and when my son told me, at 6 that I was his best friend, I told him that I wasn't his friend. I was his mom and mom's care more about their kids than a friend ever will so me being his mom is better and more appropriate. When he doesn't need me as much, at say 25 years old, we can be friends...maybe. He is okay with that. My daughter knows the same even though she is still disappointed that I cannot be her friend lol.
Disruptive behavior occurs often enough now that restaurants are banning kids.
You read about complaints from teachers about behavior problems in the schools.
You read about youth gangs rampaging through neighborhoods and stores beating up people and taking whatever they want off shelves.
And some still come back with "just a small number...."
That "just a small number" has grown big enough and has occurred often enough that some establishments have put their foot down.
I honestly believe the school behavior stems from the removal of the threat of corporal punishment in school. I told my son that our principal when I was in elementary used to "paddle" kids and he was just shocked.
At the time, my son had a habit of saying inappropriate things at inappropriate times in class (nothing vulgar, he would say "I like pie" in the middle of math lessons that had nothing to do with fractions for instance and I do think the teacher edged him on as they would laugh, it is pretty funny in context, but the laughter fed his silliness so then I had to be called in to put the hammer down, which wouldn't have occurred if they had not made a joke of it). I told him about how he is lucky his principal didn't have the authority to paddle him. I asked him if the principal did, would he have been saying such silly things in class and he was like "NO!!! I would NEVER say anything or do anything bad if Mr._____ would paddle me if I did!!" He was shocked that this would even occur in school lol. He told me he would sit still with his hands in his lap all day listening and only talk during lunch/recess if the principal might paddle him if he misbehaved.
People are all up in arms about corporal punishment but I find it is interesting that once it stopped kids started going crazy. I'm sure that at home, when I was a kid there were children who were not spanked or were unruly with their parents, but they weren't at school because our principal would paddle them, then suspend them, then expel them if they were. I knew only of one kid who had this happen to him, usually kids changed their tune after the paddling.
ETA: I rarely spank my kids. My 4 year old has never been spanked and the 11 year old has maybe 3 times in his life and he is a great kid who gets all As and loves school and his family. I do think that the threat of it is something that is missing from our society. I try to be similar to my grandma and be a no nonsense sort of mom in that if I say X leads to Z, then X will lead to Z. I also don't yell at my kids and I don't call them names and I don't let them get into adult conversations. They are kids and should socialize with kids. I don't go out of my way to "play" with them. So many parents don't let kids play outside that I actually have to go out and recruit kids for my son to ride bikes with (and some parents still don't want their kid riding bikes outside cause they might "get hurt." It is just ridiculous. I think parents are too flaky and too scared, especially too scared to make a decision and stick with said decision. I have mom friends who go on and on about wondering why their 3 year old is always upset at bedtime and I'm like....ummmm,... duh! It is because he/she is 3 and doesn't want to go to bed. There is not always some sort of problem to be solved or something to be worried about. Kids are not allowed to be kids anymore. Their natural curiosity and their need to release energy physically via play and their ability to function as kids in a group and work problems out and hold each other accountable is missing now in our society. Parents are afraid of everything and keep kids sheltered to where the kids are not allowed to learn to control themselves and act out, especially in school and public settings. It is disheartening for me. Many of my mom friends call me "free range" because I let my son ride bikes with friends and walk to the store by himself. I laugh to myself because I did those things when I was 5 years old! And now people think it is too dangerous for kids to do things and don't give kids a chance to prove how capable they can be and in effect, kids are crazy and out of control. But let me stop with my ranting as I could go on and on about this. I will mention though I read an article about how French moms behave - that they essentially ignore their children - let the kids play (basically the same as my grandma did me) and how French parents are shocked at the behavior of American parents and how they plan activities for their kids and "play" with their kids all the time. French babies and toddlers go to expensive French restaurants all the time and don't misbehave. It is this scaredy cat parenting in America that is ruining our kids.
Last edited by residinghere2007; 08-12-2013 at 08:52 AM..
WHen I was single there was nothing I hated worse at a restaurant than screaming/ disruptive children. I always vowed that one day when I have kids and they acted that way I would leave the restaurant.
I have two young children and only once did I have to leave a restaurant because of their crying (they were under a year old). If my children act up now we threaten them with leaving and they always settle down. If you want to bring your children to apublic place such as a restaurant you need to either have control of your children or respect the others around youand leave if you cant control them.
I understand peoples frustration with children out of control and have no problem with them dissallowing children at peak hours. Just go somewhere else...what the big deal?
I honestly believe the school behavior stems from the removal of the threat of corporal punishment in school. I told my son that our principal when I was in elementary used to "paddle" kids and he was just shocked.
At the time, my son had a habit of saying inappropriate things at inappropriate times in class (nothing vulgar, he would say "I like pie" in the middle of math lessons that had nothing to do with fractions for instance and I do think the teacher edged him on as they would laugh, it is pretty funny in context, but the laughter fed his silliness so then I had to be called in to put the hammer down, which wouldn't have occurred if they had not made a joke of it). I told him about how he is lucky his principal didn't have the authority to paddle him. I asked him if the principal did, would he have been saying such silly things in class and he was like "NO!!! I would NEVER say anything or do anything bad if Mr._____ would paddle me if I did!!" He was shocked that this would even occur in school lol. He told me he would sit still with his hands in his lap all day listening and only talk during lunch/recess if the principal might paddle him if he misbehaved.
People are all up in arms about corporal punishment but I find it is interesting that once it stopped kids started going crazy. I'm sure that at home, when I was a kid there were children who were not spanked or were unruly with their parents, but they weren't at school because our principal would paddle them, then suspend them, then expel them if they were. I knew only of one kid who had this happen to him, usually kids changed their tune after the paddling.
Because discipline is not feared by kids. There's nothing to fear.
Words ? Timeout ? A day off of school ?
What's to fear about consequences of bad behavior ?
And the ones that get suspended ? Why they roam the neighborhood and show up right outside the school grounds yelling and waving to the others at recess.
Discipline today with some to many kids is a joke.
Because discipline is not feared by kids. There's nothing to fear.
Words ? Timeout ? A day off of school ?
What's to fear about consequences of bad behavior ?
And the ones that get suspended ? Why they roam the neighborhood and show up right outside the school grounds yelling and waving to the others at recess.
Discipline today with some to many kids is a joke.
I don't think discipline is about instilling fear. I think it's about establishing boundaries. As adults, we live in a world ruled by boundaries. Where our actions yield predictable consequences. Discipline is about teaching a child what the predictable consequences are. Which is why parents are told to be consistent, and which is why parents are supposed to tell their children up-front what their expectations are. For many children, "the look" is enough to let them know they are pushing the boundary. Children that are misbehaving either haven't been taught what the boundaries are, or haven't been taught that there are consequences for exceeding those boundaries.
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