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Same here. I live in Oregon where we have mail in voting. The only fraud I have ever heard of was a local election last year in a county where a ballot counter, not a voter, got caught throwing away some ballots.
As far as comparing the need for the requirement of a photo ID for a driver's license, liquor purchase, opening up a bank account, renting an apartment etc. these are not rights guaranteed by the constitution, the right to vote is. That's why people haven't been required to show a photo ID. I believe making a requirement to vote other than being an American citizen is unconstitutional.
Ballot counter or ballot counters?? One person counting ballots?? My God is that how they do it there? One person can take a bunch of ballots and go off by himself and count them????
Ballot counter or ballot counters?? One person counting ballots?? My God is that how they do it there? One person can take a bunch of ballots and go off by himself and count them????
He could have counted them with others, but then tossed them after the party.
At least one of the vids I posted shows this happening. IIRC more than once.
Wherever you are there is a big difference in what really happens and what people think happens. That thread I posted has tons of info and vids. It is really eye opening about a topic most give little thought to. Precincts in general are all very informal, filled with volunteers who, usually know little. Trashed ballots isn't uncommon.
It is not til you spend some time studying the details that you come to realize how completely exploitable it is. Computers are the number one way to game the system. The same people reading everyone's email, spend time and money on the machines in the election process. The ROI they receive is quite high.
This isn't a crime like murder where you have a dead body and know a crime has been committed.
Here's simple three part question for you and if you can answer these question I'll agree with you. In the 2000 election in Florida specifically:
1)How many fraudulent votes were cast for Bush.
2)How many fraudulent votes were cast for Gore.
and most importantly...
3)Does Gore win the election when those votes are subtracted.
I keep posting the statistics that show statistically zero voter fraud. You guys keep saying it exists anyway. Is that like Republican math?
And anyway, if anyone did any cheating in Florida, which was run by Bush's brother at the time, I somehow can't figure out how it would be Gore.
Not to mention, if there were fraudulent votes cast for Gore, wouldn't the Republican machine run by Jeb Bush have let us all know is 6-foot tall letters?
So let's make it harder for people to vote because I don't approve of them taking time for all those other things.
SOME people go out on black Friday; most elderly people do not.
It doesn't bother me that people line up to spend money. It helps the economy. I just don't think a little inconvenience is an excuse to create a system of voting that is wide open to fraud.
Ballot counter or ballot counters?? One person counting ballots?? My God is that how they do it there? One person can take a bunch of ballots and go off by himself and count them????
I keep posting the statistics that show statistically zero voter fraud. You guys keep saying it exists anyway. Is that like Republican math?
And anyway, if anyone did any cheating in Florida, which was run by Bush's brother at the time, I somehow can't figure out how it would be Gore.
Not to mention, if there were fraudulent votes cast for Gore, wouldn't the Republican machine run by Jeb Bush have let us all know is 6-foot tall letters?
How would you know who is filling out absentee and other mail in ballots?
It doesn't bother me that people line up to spend money. It helps the economy. I just don't think a little inconvenience is an excuse to create a system of voting that is wide open to fraud.
With early voting in my town - people still show UP at the polls; just not all on one day. Very few people that I know actually mailed in ballots; they preferred to vote in person.
Is it the mail ballots that concern you? The rest of early voting - at least here - you show up at the polls just like normal. What would be the reason to shave one week off of early poll voting?
I can't think of ONE. I work and I cannot wait in line all day to vote. IF my employer gave us the day off - then that would be helpful. Most don't. Therefore, early voting is wonderful for me because I can do it on a day when it's not so crowded.
With early voting in my town - people still show UP at the polls; just not all on one day. Very few people that I know actually mailed in ballots; they preferred to vote in person.
Is it the mail ballots that concern you? The rest of early voting - at least here - you show up at the polls just like normal. What would be the reason to shave one week off of early poll voting?
I can't think of ONE. I work and I cannot wait in line all day to vote. IF my employer gave us the day off - then that would be helpful. Most don't. Therefore, early voting is wonderful for me because I can do it on a day when it's not so crowded.
I have no problem with the early voting as described.
They could even have specified times where old people get to go to the front of the line as far as I am concerned. Show up and produce ID and cast a vote for person of your choice.
With ballots coming and going through the mail, there is no way of knowing who is actually filling them out.
I keep posting the statistics that show statistically zero voter fraud. You guys keep saying it exists anyway. Is that like Republican math?
And anyway, if anyone did any cheating in Florida, which was run by Bush's brother at the time, I somehow can't figure out how it would be Gore.
Not to mention, if there were fraudulent votes cast for Gore, wouldn't the Republican machine run by Jeb Bush have let us all know is 6-foot tall letters?
Keep in mind voter fraud and election fraud are not the same. Though they can result in fraudulent votes. I would say there is far more evidence of election fraud than voter fraud. However, there is little desire to really look at this due to conflict of interest. The parties involved do not want to invalidate the system nor incriminate themselves. More going on than people realize.
Originally Posted by CDusr This shows how a "low-tech" approach can be used for fraud. This was from 2009. Kentucky e-voting fraud manipulated voters, not machines | Ars Technica
quote:
This past Friday brought news of a handful of indictments of elections officials in Kentucky who are alleged to have rigged elections in 2002, 2004, and 2006 by changing votes in electronic voting machines. The group of five officials (plus one non-official) is charged with a list of crimes including manipulating the vote totals in electronic voting machines, certifying elections that they knew to be rigged, and arranging for votes to be sold. Remarkably, the vote manipulation technique here was essentially an exploit of a simple UI design flaw, and involved no computer skills at all on the part of the alleged perpetrators.
Two of the folks involved allegedly told voters that pressing the "Vote" button would actually cast their ballot, so that they would leave the booth right after pressing it and with their ballot still uncast. So when voters left the booth after pressing "Vote," these two guys would go into the booth behind them and change their votes before casting the final, now-altered ballot.
Clearly, no audit—mandatory or otherwise—would've caught this fraud, because it relied on the best and most reliable tool in the hacker's arsenal: good, old-fashioned "social engineering."
I keep posting the statistics that show statistically zero voter fraud.
You can't answer the simple questions I asked. You don't know, correct?
Let me ask you something, if you had single Florida county where it was found that 100 voters were registered illegally simply by comparing registration rolls against what people answered on jury duty forms would that raise an eyebrow? Would it raise your eyebrow even further if you found out many of them voted?
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