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The thing I don't like is Obama is making up the rules as he goes along. Waiving employer mandate. Letting congressional staff have same subsidies as they would if they were on the federal health plans. But the law states they must tap the federal exchanges. That means those making more than 400% of poverty who not be elgible for the across the board 70% federal government susidies and have to pay full price.
And last of all Obama letting the kids run loose by not even verifying income for these subsidies. People will lie. And do you really think we will have any federal enforcement for people "attesting" to their incomes for these subsidies.
Even if they tell the truth and somehow make much more for the year. Obama isn't even gojng to make people pay back the subsidies. It's a joke. The government essentially is giving out a blank check with no real means of enforcement.
They won't prosecute. They didn't when they audited the lifeline program.
Just dropped them as subscribers.
And who is going to go back and do all this verifying ?
You estimate your income next month for 2014.
There's no proof until you file your income tax in 2015.
So it's the IRS that has to do the verifying of each return.
But since employers don't list insurance the IRS cannot verify you have insurance with your employer.
They can only verify income and then have to hunt down wherever you estimated your 2014 income with the obamacare forms.
I don't know what happens if your estimate is different than your actual income.
They can't hold you liable for guessing.
They won't prosecute. They didn't when they audited the lifeline program.
Just dropped them as subscribers.
And who is going to go back and do all this verifying ?
You estimate your income next month for 2014.
There's no proof until you file your income tax in 2015.
So it's the IRS that has to do the verifying of each return.
But since employers don't list insurance the IRS cannot verify you have insurance with your employer.
They can only verify income and then have to hunt down wherever you estimated your 2014 income with the obamacare forms.
I don't know what happens if your estimate is different than your actual income.
They can't hold you liable for guessing.
From what I read. You estimate your 2014 income based on your 2012 or 2013 IRS tax filing. Of course they also let you estimate your 2014 income. And you can apparently choose whatever is your lowest income year.
And even if you lie and are caught. Say you make 100k but say you make 90k to qualify for subsidy. The government is going to give you roughly a $5000 payment credit towards your premiums (based on projected 2014 premiums of $14000 for family of 4).
If by any chance you get caught. The government isn't even going to require you to pay back the entire $5000. They don't want you to have "sticker shock with repayment".
You must pay back "some of the money". But a full repayment is not required. Talk about accounting problems for the CBO projection of this law.
The government has had 3 full years to figure all this stuff out since the law was signed. It's a joke they can't seem to know what to do if people can't verify income. What to do if people lie. How to get their money back.
BS. The alternative is they leech off of the system. Sorry, but people need to show some personal responsibility and pay their own way.
That's a false choice. Why does personal responsibility have to mean buying insurance? How is it leeching off the system for people decline medical insurance and pay their medical expenses out-of-pocket?
That's a false choice. Why does personal responsibility have to mean buying insurance? How is it leeching off the system for people decline medical insurance and pay their medical expenses out-of-pocket?
the problem is the people who get medical care and don't pay for it (e.g. ER) plus those who delay treatment because they're not insured, and end up with an expensive problem.
the problem is the people who get medical care and don't pay for it (e.g. ER) plus those who delay treatment because they're not insured, and end up with an expensive problem.
Well, that may be a problem, but there are plenty of uninsured folks who handle their medical stuff responsibly, so the whole insured=responsible/uninsured=leech thing is still BS; and offensive BS at that.
That's a false choice. Why does personal responsibility have to mean buying insurance? How is it leeching off the system for people decline medical insurance and pay their medical expenses out-of-pocket?
Those people who don't have insurance aren't going to tell the ambulance driver to let them die by the side of the road. They're going to leach off of the system as people have been doing for a long time. Those without insurance still get care, it just comes at the cost of others in the health system.
What you're talking about is a nice pipe dream, but it doesn't exist in practice.
Well, that may be a problem, but there are plenty of uninsured folks who handle their medical stuff responsibly, so the whole insured=responsible/uninsured=leech thing is still BS; and offensive BS at that.
The argument is that since the government requires hospitals to provide treatment there is a reason for each individual to carry hospital insurance. It would be different if hospitals could turn people away that they didn't want to treat, but they can't
Quote:
Originally Posted by remoddahouse
Those people who don't have insurance aren't going to tell the ambulance driver to let them die by the side of the road. They're going to leach off of the system as people have been doing for a long time. Those without insurance still get care, it just comes at the cost of others in the health system.
What you're talking about is a nice pipe dream, but it doesn't exist in practice.
The uninsured aren't leeching off the system or driving the health care costs. It is far less costly to society to treat the uninsured than it is to treat medicaid patients. The data is a bit skewed though because the uninsured include people that pay out of pocket and people that can't pay. In addition, billing fraud and unnecessary tests are more difficult to pull off when someone is paying cash.
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