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You did see the link to the actual Neshoba Fair Grounds website, where they actually list themselves in Philadelphia in their own address.
I mean come on. If they consider themselves in Philadelphia in their own address (probably the closest post office) then why wouldn't everyone else. Basic logic here.
Yes my Ann Coulter attack was ad hominem, but hardly logical fallacy when someone says literally crazy or borderline crazy things for a very long time, enough that many conservatives think of her as crazy. That's called common sense, looking at someones track record with their own group.
We're into splitting hairs here. I used to live in Overland, MO, in St. Louis County MO. It was USPS policy that I could use an address of St Louis MO, even though I did not live in St. Louis city limits. For reasons that always escaped me, a St. Louis address was thought to be more prestigious.
Facts are facts--Reagan's speech was not in Philiadelphia. Reagan was no racist, and there is no evidence that his support for states' rights was code for 'bring back slavery' or whatever. Reagan had supported states' rights as CA gov for the usual reasons of decentralization.
As for ad hominem, it is always a logical fallacy. Debate the message, not the messenger.
Excellent posts. One of these days I'm going to do a thread on Nixon vs. JFK on racial equality. According to a black friend of mine, Nixon tried to integrate his college frat at Whittier College and got a lot of grief over that. I am unable to find documentation of this, but I don't think my friend made it up. Nixon did meet with MLK as VP under Ike and tried to arrange a meeting between Ike and MLK, which Ike declined. He used parliamentary tricks to pass the Civil rights Act of 1957, for which MLK thanked him.
JFK by contrast kowtowed to the Democratic segregationist wing in the 50's-60's. He rejected the support of Sammie Davis Jr. on the grounds that Davis had married a white wife. Davis went to the Nixon camp, which welcomed him w/ open arms. JFK and RFK spied on MLK and numerous other black activists. RFK signed off on COINTELPRO, a fairly absurd program by the FBI to infiltrate and disrupt civil rights organizations.
Nixon had a huge amount of flaws, though he had a lot of good qualities too. He grew up quite humble (his mother from a long quaker family line, ironically where I am a 6th cousin a couple times removed actually) and this resulted in him really despising the rich, including a lot of the conservative wealth he had to ally with (like Rockefeller). He also supported a loot of poor supporting programs, unlike a lot of his colleagues. In fact he wanted health care reform, something fairly similar to Obamacare:
Pandering to racists doesn't mean you are racist. I highly doubt he was. There are both Republican and Democrat racists, though it's fairly safe arugment that when the south split with the Democrats over civil rights and went Republican, that increased the Republicans (and lowered the Democrats) racist count.
Far from perfect and who knows if they were or had been racists (or done racists things in their pasts), but based on a lot of the record they come out pretty good.
Robert F Kennedy:
Quote:
there is no reason that in the near or the foreseeable future, a Negro could [not] become President of the United States.
We're into splitting hairs here. I used to live in Overland, MO, in St. Louis County MO. It was USPS policy that I could use an address of St Louis MO, even though I did not live in St. Louis city limits. For reasons that always escaped me, a St. Louis address was thought to be more prestigious.
Facts are facts--Reagan's speech was not in Philiadelphia. Reagan was no racist, and there is no evidence that his support for states' rights was code for 'bring back slavery' or whatever. Reagan had supported states' rights as CA gov for the usual reasons of decentralization.
As for ad hominem, it is always a logical fallacy. Debate the message, not the messenger.
You're splitting hairs not me lol. Your argument is that saying it's in Philadelphia is wrong and makes liberals arguments tying the fair grounds to Philadelphia invalid, right... Well the fact that their mailing address is in Philadelphia, that they are in the same county, and the fair probably has the most attendees from Philadelphia completely dismisses your argument and that seems pretty obvious. If you argue that it's technically like a mile outside of city limits and hence liberals attaching the murder of 3 civil rights workers in Philadelphia to the same attended of that fair is wrong, well then you are really splitting hairs lol.
Quote:
Debate the message, not the messenger.
I debated both Even a broken clock is right twice a day right, which is why I would never dismiss all claims from even a crazy person, though Coulter is full of it with those claims. Again believe he's racist or not, the same people that are affiliated with the racism that killed those three civil workers spilled over into that fair, it's impossible to discern how much of course and I would never imply I knew how much despite you implying it couldn't have.
Racist? He was certainly good to the Japanese-Americans. Giving Reparations of $20,000 to each survivor.
Funny though that almost immediately after this magnanimous gift, he slithered over to Japan where he was given a $2,000,000 speaking fee. That in itself has no smell of racism at all (just bribery) - that is unless maybe you were a Black person sitting around watching this on the news and wondering why the Japanese deserved to be paid for being sent to a camp for 3 years - while Black folks ancestors spent their entire lives in hard labor slavery.
I am not arguing that reparations are right or wrong - or that it was a racist act. But I bet it sure seemed like a racist slap in the face to A-A citizens to see their president appear to take a bribe to pay off Japanese while Blacks couldn't even get a Slavery reparations discussed.
There is no consensus on the left that Reagan was a Racist - no more than any other person - it is a silly concept. The only reason that anyone could or would be justified in saying there was if is there was a "lefties" only vote held and the resulting outcome of the vote was that Reagan was indeed a racist.
But I bet there are plenty of individuals that would be willing to say they think he was. Was he more racist than a real-life Archie Bunker like person - that is up to individuals to decide. For me personally, the position his administration took on Apartheid says, "yes", he was.
Ann Coulter? Not even worth discussing her antics, mis-statements, and distortions and alleged outright lies.
Ronald Reagan greatness is all a lie. Supported by those were not there and only go by what they have heard, and by those who do not wish to see or acknowledge the documented corruption and his self-admitted crimes, blindness to critical public health concerns, and foolish economics. Personally, I think too many people conflate his being what they consider a good person with the reality of his presidency - ignoring what they don't want to see or understand. He is a Myth - St. Ronnie!
"Ronald Reagan greatness is all a lie. Supported by those were not there and only go by what they have heard,"
Well, I WAS there so there goes your credibility. If you had any which I doubt.
Interesting. I was unaware of the reparations paid to Japanese Americans and a 2 million dollar speaking fee? Did I read that rght?
Yes you read correctly, the bill for reparations was sponsored by Norman Mineta a Japanese immigrant whose family was interned during WW2 and Senator Alan Simpson, Reagan signed the bill into law, I don't believe a veto was an option.
Yes Reagan went to Japan right after he left office and was paid over $1M for his short visit, that was a lot of money in 1988 and important because Japan was a big competitor to US companies.
I don't think Reagan was racist but he took these anecdotal experiences and knowledge like the one welfare queen with the 8 kids made that the rule rather than the exception. Welfare was not the largest problem facing us in the 80's.
Facts are facts--Reagan's speech was not in Philiadelphia.
As someone who has actually BEEN to Philidelphia, MS let me 'splain this to you.
The fairgrounds are actually about 3 miles from the edge of Philadelphia. The fairgrounds have a horse track and a good sized grandstand which is probably why the event was held there.
It's ridiculous to consider the fact that the event wasn't held in the middle of Philidelphia to be any sort of "point".
If we are going to go with "facts": the church the Klan burned down (that Schwerner, Goodman and Chaney visited) wasn't in Philidelphia. The murders didn't happen in Philidelphia either.
I find it amusing that the OP quotes as authorities Ann Coulter and Michael Reagan. Gee, no conflict of interest there.
If the conservatives would spend more time on Reagan's actual record than on trying to turn him into some kind of saint, they'd have a much clearer understanding of where their party has been and why it is going the direction it is headed -- toward dissolution. Reagan yoked together the so-called 'Moral Majority' and the Fiscal Conservatives and it's a marriage that is breaking up ugly. He also raised taxes 11x and basically ignored a terrorist attack that was 50x worse than Benghazi.
I lived through his tenure and I literally do not recognize the 'new and improved' version that the GOP adores. The Ronald Reagan they revere was not the man who was president but some Audio-animatronic version they've dreamed up in their own minds...a Robo-Reagan. Ann Coulter is especially 'gifted' at shellacking over the human being...and Michael Reagan has not doubt his own reasons for trying to remake his father's image.
Yes you read correctly, the bill for reparations was sponsored by Norman Mineta a Japanese immigrant whose family was interned during WW2 and Senator Alan Simpson, Reagan signed the bill into law, I don't believe a veto was an option.
Yes Reagan went to Japan right after he left office and was paid over $1M for his short visit, that was a lot of money in 1988 and important because Japan was a big competitor to US companies.
I don't think Reagan was racist but he took these anecdotal experiences and knowledge like the one welfare queen with the 8 kids made that the rule rather than the exception. Welfare was not the largest problem facing us in the 80's.
What did Reagan tell you in his trip the Neshoba County?
Quote:
Today, and I know from our own experience in California when we reformed welfare, I know that one of the great tragedies of welfare in America today, and I don't believe stereotype after what we did, of people in need who are there simply because they prefer to be there. We found the overwhelming majority would like nothing better than to be out, with jobs for the future, and out here in the society with the rest of us. The trouble is, again, that bureaucracy has them so economically trapped that there is no way they can get away. And they're trapped because that bureaucracy needs them as a clientele to preserve the jobs of the bureaucrats themselves.
I find it amusing that the OP quotes as authorities Ann Coulter and Michael Reagan. Gee, no conflict of interest there.
If the conservatives would spend more time on Reagan's actual record than on trying to turn him into some kind of saint, they'd have a much clearer understanding of where their party has been and why it is going the direction it is headed -- toward dissolution. Reagan yoked together the so-called 'Moral Majority' and the Fiscal Conservatives and it's a marriage that is breaking up ugly. He also raised taxes 11x and basically ignored a terrorist attack that was 50x worse than Benghazi.
I lived through his tenure and I literally do not recognize the 'new and improved' version that the GOP adores. The Ronald Reagan they revere was not the man who was president but some Audio-animatronic version they've dreamed up in their own minds...a Robo-Reagan. Ann Coulter is especially 'gifted' at shellacking over the human being...and Michael Reagan has not doubt his own reasons for trying to remake his father's image.
Too bad facts and history aren't on your side. The left didn't get to rewrite history with Reagan because he left mounds upon mounds of records including 600 legal pads filled with ideas, books, National Security Directives and nearly 100 speeches (some completely impromptu or entirely memorized unlike certain presidents who couldn't memorize one sentence).
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Even a broken clock is right twice a day right, which is why I would never dismiss all claims from even a crazy person, though Coulter is full of it with those claims. Again believe he's racist or not, the same people that are affiliated with the racism that killed those three civil workers spilled over into that fair, it's impossible to discern how much of course and I would never imply I knew how much despite you implying it couldn't have.
