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Our laws, rules and regulations are so complex that one would have to strip out most or all of them and start all over in order to achieve anything remotely considered fair, just, right or equitable.
That's a cop-out. There is no defensible excuse for stripping out critical elements of the social safety net before the replacement is fully implemented and already there to take its place. You're trying to defend - literally - irresponsibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold
The question is how long the limb is going to be able to support the weight fo all these band-aids.
It's a cute folksy refrain, but it doesn't help solve the problem. The first step in solving a problem is recognizing it, and as long as people think the problem is how we're trying to address inadequacies in society instead of the reality - that the problem is the inadequacies in society themselves - they'll never contribute constructively toward a solution.
Here in my area of Florida there are many seniors who have spent most of their lives working under the table. Many were vagabond types that spent their youth roaming the country, working here and there. Many just didn't have the mental capacity to understand planning for the future. Many others did not have any skills, which kept them in low paying service jobs, and every extra penny counted...then...now, they wish they had done things differently.
A friend of mine gets about $485 per month for social security, due to her low income status she gets a supplement of $250, bring her total to $735, in addition she receives $90 in food stamps. Not a fortune, but she can make it. She qualifies for many free programs, health & dental and meals on wheels. I do help her when I can, having recently purchased a small mobile home for her, it was a wreck, but I am helping her fix it up. I have given her furniture as have others. Her rent is $250 per month, her elec runs $45, with help from elder care programs and her friends, she is able to live on her own. She is one of many here, who need assistance, she is well aware of the government and state programs that are available to her.
As for her tomorrows, I do not know, however, her mindset is still that of her past...she lives in today and does not worry about tomorrow. She is not going to change, and I do not worry about her, she will figure something out, she always does.
bUU- understand a sizable population doesn't care. They don't feel the need to defend their position because they don't care. It isn't their issue unless someone us trying to make them pay for something they don't care about. Altruism is not a universal innate trait. Nor is the opposite so it is easy to miss each other in conversation.
Just wondering what happens to an elderly person or couple who have no savings and don't receive enough in social security and other payouts to support themselves. If they don't want to receive assistance from family members or have no family, would the government leave them to become homeless on the streets or in homeless shelters?
If the affected person or couple do not have the motivation or knowledge to get help from existing resources, then the answer to your question is yes. But there are things such as public housing based on income geared towards senior citizens, food stamps, meals on wheels, private or church-based charitable organizations, etc. that would probably provide at least a subsistence level of food and shelter.
That's a cop-out. There is no defensible excuse for stripping out critical elements of the social safety net before the replacement is fully implemented and already there to take its place. You're trying to defend - literally - irresponsibility.
It's a cute folksy refrain, but it doesn't help solve the problem. The first step in solving a problem is recognizing it, and as long as people think the problem is how we're trying to address inadequacies in society instead of the reality - that the problem is the inadequacies in society themselves - they'll never contribute constructively toward a solution.
And neither is anything you can propose unless that stripping is done.
The only cop out part of it is to 'cop out' of useless discussions about it ( or any other problem) when you stop and remember what an exercise in futility it is. Especially realized at the age of most on this forum.
Obviously, fixing the world is a favorite topic but in the long run, little ever gets fixed.
Just the fact that most of the inadequate public officials in office at any one time get reelected is proof, regardless of how much they're complained about.
The problem with people like bUU is that they are trying to save people from themselves, against their will, using our hard-earned tax dollars, against our will.
A week or two ago there was an article in the Los Angeles Times about a group of homeless people who lived along a riverbank. The county had financed a team of outreach workers who went and talked to the homeless, explaining about the various programs available to them and urging them to come partake of these opportunities. While there were some homeless who did in fact do so, the majority refused. They were not interested in making any changes. They had made their choice of living situation, and were satisfied with it. Taking them away in handcuffs would not pass muster with concerns about civil liberties, so what is to be done with these people? Well, really, there is nothing to be done; that is the reality of the situation.
The problem with people like bUU is that they are trying to save people from themselves, against their will, using our hard-earned tax dollars, against our will.
A week or two ago there was an article in the Los Angeles Times about a group of homeless people who lived along a riverbank. The county had financed a team of outreach workers who went and talked to the homeless, explaining about the various programs available to them and urging them to come partake of these opportunities. While there were some homeless who did in fact do so, the majority refused. They were not interested in making any changes. They had made their choice of living situation, and were satisfied with it. Taking them away in handcuffs would not pass muster with concerns about civil liberties, so what is to be done with these people? Well, really, there is nothing to be done; that is the reality of the situation.
Other folks are often happy with lifestyles we might consider deplorable.
The problem with people like bUU is that they are trying to save people from themselves, against their will, using our hard-earned tax dollars, against our will.
A week or two ago there was an article in the Los Angeles Times about a group of homeless people who lived along a riverbank. The county had financed a team of outreach workers who went and talked to the homeless, explaining about the various programs available to them and urging them to come partake of these opportunities. While there were some homeless who did in fact do so, the majority refused. They were not interested in making any changes. They had made their choice of living situation, and were satisfied with it. Taking them away in handcuffs would not pass muster with concerns about civil liberties, so what is to be done with these people? Well, really, there is nothing to be done; that is the reality of the situation.
I think more under discussion here is about people who lived as irresponsibly as they wanted and then when the SHTF and they found themselves old and poor with few options, expect to be taken care of... playing on guilt and sympathy...and it works.
Even those of us who might declare 'they deserve nothing' and 'throw them to the wolves' can only adhere to that on a theoretical basis...we can't bring ourselves to actually do it on a one to one or face to face basis.(At least most of us...probably there are some who actually could
Since the problem are the inadequacies, providing amelioration of the ramifications of the inadequacies does mitigate those ramifications.
Even if you refuse to admit it.
There is no merit to society in stripping away the social safety net. At all.
Even if you refuse to admit it.
OK....so dazzle us with your solution.
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