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But there is far too much waste in the current system.
There is this thing, called administration, that logically would decline with the invention of the computer, but it seems to increase every year...
We could get the same level of service, and it could cost less. It's called efficiency, something government has forgotten...
Efficiency is lost on people because people on seem to care if a government is big or small, whatever that really means. I couldn't care less the size of government, I am more concerned about the efficiency of government and the reduction of wasteful spending while trying to maximize the benefits to the people.
I know I pay too much in taxes when I look at places like Singapore. If I lived in Singapore my total income tax rate would be right at 7%. I would take that every day of the week over the 40% or more I currently pay.
People are muddying income tax with taxes in general. Its not just income tax that is killing us, its all the extra taxes we pay. We should move to a simplified flat tax. I would even agree to a graduated tax rate based on income with the top rate of 20%. Along with that institute a consumption tax scheme. Say for a person making 100k a 10% income and then pay a 7% sales tax on all goods except food. That would work great.
So you would rather live in an undeveloped country? I could live in Russia as my mom is from there, but I choose to live in the USA and pay higher taxes because it is safer, more stable, and cheaper.
LOL you don't listen. I do not believe that over taxing citizens equals more stability, so I rather stay in the US with lower taxes.
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Originally Posted by lycos679
You can't complain about our debt and then complain about taxes.
Oh yea I can when I'm responding to you saying:
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The developing world doesn't have a high tax burden, but they don't provide the safety and stability that developed countries do.
You think that over taxing citizens to pay for cost ineffective programs for citizens who don not pay taxes provides a safety and stability for the US. That makes no since at all, and yes I can complain about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679
Most places have a property tax because mot people want government services.
LOL except that the people that you are referring to do not pay much in taxes, but get the most benefits. So half of america is over paying in taxes to help support the other half that isn't paying their share. Thanks for proving my point.
I guess that because you're apart of the half that doesn't over pay for a lesser share of government benefits, you can't even begin to understand why we complain about taxes. I get it.
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Originally Posted by lycos679
It matters because you could choose to live in a place that has virtually no property taxes, but you will have to say goodbye to all the services you like, and maybe you don't like city services, but you could choose to live without police, fire, schools, indoor plumbing, and county hospitals. Most people want services though.
No I could live right were I am now, have the same services, and not have to be over taxed if I did not have to pick up the slack for other. You keep ignoring that point.
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Originally Posted by lycos679
Even the highest earners are paying less today than they have historically.
No, my point is that we aren't a high tax country so it doesn't make sense for people to try and say we are.
Who's saying we're a high tax county? No One! We're saying that we're over taxed in this country, and if the citizens in another country are worse off than we are, then they're being over taxed as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679
I don't think the tax rate causes low or high homicide rates, but government services - which can be reflected in the tax rate - can influence homicide rates.
Then explain why the crime rate is the highest in low income areas that receive more government services than in areas that pay high taxes? Government services that aren't designed to make people more self efficient such as the services that are offered in the US, contribute to the crime rate... That would suggest to me that if there were less people on government services, and more people contributing, then not only could everyone taxes decrease, but crie would decrease too... Which would prove you wrong.
I agree, taxes are low in this country, even lower for the really wealthy. So it is mind boggling when people try to whine that taxes are too high and need to be lowered in this country.
Many of us are happy to pay taxes, but it makes our blood boil to see the money wasted or lost or used in some insanely inefficient manner.
Like if you gave your friend money and they set it on fire after sh*tting on it and then they come to you demanding more.
What does that have to do with anything? How are the taxes in other countries relevant to our taxes? That's immature little kid reasoning. "Johnny has an Xbox so I want one too"
We are a western country so we should compare ourselves to western countries.
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Originally Posted by kidkaos2
The constitution provides for what powers the federal government has and provides for taxation to fund the exercise of those powers. But our federal government has over 1,300 separate agencies employing almost 3 million people. That is out of control. Our taxes are too high because those taxes are going to fund agencies that the federal government is not allowed under our constitution.
Well that is a different argument than saying our taxes are too high. It seems like you are saying our taxes fund things they shouldn't, but moreover you are saying that it is unconstitutional to fund the various programs. You can always take the issue to the SCOTUS or have your rep fo it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2
What the taxes are in other countries has absolutely nothing to do with it. If that's the level of reasoning liberals engage in, it's a wonder you all get elected to anything more than city dog catcher.
So I guess you want to compare us to Columbia and then claim our taxes are too high?
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Originally Posted by curly_Q
Because taxpayers shelled out multiple millions of dollars for a broken website, like healthcare.gov, which will cost even more to fix. And that is just the start of the newest government TAX labeled Obamacare.
I'm pretty sure people were complaining about taxes before 10/1/2013
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Originally Posted by curly_Q
We don't get anything for our taxes.
I can agree with that, but we don't pay much either.
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Originally Posted by Haakon
Just because other countries are over taxed does not mean Americans aren't taxed too much. I suppose you think we should have to pay $10 / gallon for gas too, just because some other countries do. Maybe we should ditch the Constitution too, because other countries don't have one. Maybe we should change the courts to guilty until proven innocent like some EU countries do or let prosecutors appeal "not guilty" verdicts until they can get a conviction.
One thing we should do, like every other country, is stop being World Cop. Lets let the rest of the world carry their weight if they want to enforce international law.
I smell the American exceptionalism propaganda. The USA isn't the only country with a constitution or presumption of innocence and while our petrol prices are low, Europeans can get more efficient cars so the prices come out the same.
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Originally Posted by LordSquidworth
That is true.
But there is far too much waste in the current system.
There is this thing, called administration, that logically would decline with the invention of the computer, but it seems to increase every year...
We could get the same level of service, and it could cost less. It's called efficiency, something government has forgotten...
It looks like we are getting more efficient. Though I agree with you in general.
1984 235.8 million people, 2854000 nonmilitary government employees 1 employee per 82 citizens
1988 244.5 million people, 3054000 nonmilitary government employees 1 employee per 80 citizens
1992 256.5 million people, 3017000 nonmilitary government employees 1 employee per 85 citizens
1996 269.3 million people, 2786000 nonmilitary government employees 1 employee per 96 citizens
2000 282.1 million people, 2639000 nonmilitary government employees 1 employee per 106 citizens
2004 292.8 million people, 2650000 nonmilitary government employees 1 employee per 110 citizens
2008 304.0 million people, 2692000 nonmilitary government employees 1 employee per 112 citizens
2010 309.3 million people, 2776000 nonmilitary government employees (with temporary census workers included) 1 employee per 111 citizens and 1 employee per 117 citizens without temporary census employees counted
The real question, to me, is at what point have we become slaves?
Your labor is ALL you have to sell. All discussion should BEGIN with the assumption that your earnings are yours. And yes there is a price of admission for living in America, and for living in your state and your local community.
But at what point are you a slave, where the fruit of your labor is taken from you?
30%? 40%? 50%? More?
That is the right question!
+1 good point.. According to the OP's logic, the more the government takes, the safer and more stable America will become. I guess Once they start to take 100% and run our lives for us, we'll be the safest most stable country in the world.
Because they are way too high. Nobody should pay more than 15% of their income to the government.
As late as 1963, the top marginal tax rate was 90%.
Strangely, we were still able to maintain a growing economy, one of the highest standards of living in the world and a sizable military force, befitting our status as a world superpower.
Oh, yes, and we were in the midst of building the Interstate Highway System. These days, we don't even seem to be able to maintain it properly, so good thing we built it with those sky-high tax rates.
You can't complain about our debt and then complain about taxes.
Nice little graph, lots of colors and big words. Unfortunately its a proven load of garbage.
Tax revenue has remained nearly constant since the 60s or 70s as a % of GDP. The biggest contributers to our debt are economic crashes and social security / medicare.
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Originally Posted by lycos679
Social mobility
Education
Unemployment
Quality of life
Economy
Crime
Wealth
Etc.
some
correct
wrong
some
wrong
some
wrong
etc.
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You can always take the issue to the SCOTUS or have your rep fo it.
