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Typical...You cannot refute the facts so you resort to calling Buffet a liar. First of all what makes you think that the personal secretary to one of the richest men in the world is paid a mere $60,000 per year? I think you just pulled that little gem out of your nether regions. I doubt if either the dollar amount of taxes paid by Buffet or his secretary's salary are public knowledge
Secondly Buffet is referring to tax rates as in his are lower than his secretary's.
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FACT: making 60k (which is what buffet himself says she makes)
I love how someone says "if you don't want their money then stop pushing for taxing the rich" not realizing that....I am pushing for taxes on people who make my income and above. IE *I* lose money here. But I also believe its the right thing for our country. Its not envy, its knowing that the engine of our economy, and the basis of what made America great is poisoned by extreme wealth inequality. We are a great country in some ways because of inequality. But its the whole-A glass of water is good for you, but too much will drown you.
I believe that our country is full of smart hard working people.....and someone wanting to argue and prove me wrong decides to argue that we are dumber. Apparently not looking at the two links they post. One points out that the WORLD IQ is dropping, but has a chart showing that the united states IQ is going up. Basically proving my point. The other link points to a study done dealing specifically with England, and correlating reaction times with IQ. Sigh.
Then to refute my point about millionaires, and how they are not representative of our smartest these days (IE 2013), he links to a book written in 1996. Most of whom were investors benefiting from the United states going through the best bull market in history. A book written not to be accurate, or a scientific study....but rather to make money and make people feel good. And covers the top 20%....whereas I was discussing the top 1%, in other words...his refutation is based upon a book about 95% of the people I wasn't discussing. you need to have a net worth of 16 million to make it into the top 1%. Do I think most of the top 20% worked hard to get there? Yup! The book correlates making good investment and lifestyle decisions to wealth. Much of which is true. But it ignores the benefits of having money, and education that helps realize that. One thing me and the poster probably agree on is that some of the things discussed in the book should be taught in high school. but it confuses correlation and causation. For exampel, children brought up in households that practice this (ie millionaires) will more often be millionaires because of the lessons they learn. Well..it misses the second part of "and having the opportunity and finances to do so". Mitt Romneys a great example of this too. LOL, having his life opened up to the world, and his personal beliefs is unusual for the truly wealthy. When asked about college he went on about how hard he and his wife struggled, talked about ironing on a door as I seem to recall. Basically had the kinda story that would go into a book like that about pulling himself up with no help etc etc. Uh huh. One of his horrors of how bad it was is him selling off stock that his father gave him worth about a quarter of a million in todays dollars. And knowing that the risks he took had a floor-beneath which his family would step in. Totally oblivious to how this really made him look. a quarter of a million? And he was enduring hardships? sigh. Hardship is doing the EXACT same thing, but being one small mistake away from failing completely. Without a quarter of a million in cash to help cover shortages. Thats the kind of complete disconnect between reality and belief. These people dont understand that others just dont have those same choices. They dont understand the benefits they get from government, and are increasingly thinking it is the enemy.
I could plop down a couple studies showing that the majority of people in the top 1% had inheritances. But the vast majority of those people when asked would talk about having done it all on their own with no help....Missing entirely that most people don't have inheritances.
I love how someone says "if you don't want their money then stop pushing for taxing the rich" not realizing that....I am pushing for taxes on people who make my income and above.
The people earning more income than you are already pay MUCH more than anyone else. They're only 5% of all tax filers. If the U.S. needs more tax revenue, we'll have to widen the tax base. STOP taxing the middle class at a rate nearly 1/4th that of the top 5%. Everyone should pay their fair share.
This is how ludicrous our tax system is, and why increasing taxes on the job creators hurts our economy...
For purposes of this example, let's assign the top 25-50%'s 6.01% average effective federal income tax rate reported by the IRS to an income of $40,000. The tax paid would be $2,404.
Now let's apply the top 1%'s 23.39% tax rate to an income 14 times higher, $560,000, which is an income in the top 1%. The tax paid would be $130,984.
The top 1% earner would be paying 54.5 times as much tax as the middle-income earner, while earning only 14 times as much income.
The higher the income disparity, the more the multiplier amplifies it. For example, if a 1%er earns 30 times a middle class income, the net result would yield about 30 x 4* = 120 times more in income tax than a middle class earner would pay.
* The multiplier of approximately 4 comes from dividing the top 1%'s tax rate of 23.39% by the middle class's tax rate of 6.01%.
I know that nobody on the side of the republicans will be believe this, but obama wants to have a grand bargin to secure his legacy. He wants tax revenue in exchange for entitlement cuts to medicare, medicaid and social security. He campaigned on tax hikes for the top 2% in this country making over 250K. Here is my question, why are so opposed to obama closing loopholes for the top 2%, if you get major reduction in entitlements which are the largest driver of our debt? He made it known that he would lock in the bush tax cuts permanently for everybody else, so why are you trying to protect the rich from the closing of any loopholes?
There are so many things wrong with this post it's hard to know where to begin.
First, taxing the top 2% is a misnomer. It is the top 2% of WAGE EARNERS. That in fact does not really tax the rich. people who earn a large income are not the same thing as rich people.
Truely rich people do not get wages. They make their money by capital gains and carried interest. That is taxed at a far lower rate.
Raising taxes on the top 2% of wage earners simply prevents middle income people from becoming rich.
It creates dependence on government.
Second, Obama has NOT offered a grand bargin. He has said he has offered a grand bargin, but actions speak louder than words.
his offer has always been "give me tax hikes and later down the road we will talk about entitlement reform".
We have been down that road. Dems get what they want but never give back later. Republicans arent being fooled this time around.
I love how someone says "if you don't want their money then stop pushing for taxing the rich" not realizing that....I am pushing for taxes on people who make my income and above. IE *I* lose money here. But I also believe its the right thing for our country. Its not envy, its knowing that the engine of our economy, and the basis of what made America great is poisoned by extreme wealth inequality. We are a great country in some ways because of inequality. But its the whole-A glass of water is good for you, but too much will drown you.
yes the richer you are the higher your tax rate is...Thats kinda how its supposed to work. Why is this a problem?
Thats historically been considered fair. I know you dont want that, you want everyone to pay the same-despite the fact that the guy making minimum wage would then go even further below the minimum to survive, whereas the truly rich might have to buy a slightly smaller yacht. All the while wealth inequality continues to accelerate because of this simple difference-at the low end you dont make enough to survive and need a handout, while at the high end you have disposable money with which to invest in things to make even more money.
So yeah the HORROR. Lets examine your numbers....and then apply real life to them shall we?
So middle class dude paying so much less in taxes....makes 40K
Lets just use some averages-feel free to discuss if you think thats a bad methodology.
I could link a bunch of things...but here it si for one person: Estimate Cost of Living - LeavingtheFolks.com
21,492
Now that assumes that: they have no wife, and NO kids. Kids are FORBIDDEN.
except...people DO have kids. Cost of raising a child: Average cost to raise a kid: $241,080 - Aug. 14, 2013
241K-call it 13K/yr, and most people have a child.
Thats...34.5K say. Leaving them with 5.5K in other money. Of which that 2,404 represents 43% of their after expenses income....even less after other taxes are taken into account.
Now...lets look at that horror of taxation that the rich must endure. They have an income of $560,000. after base expenses to survive (see prior example) they have lets call it 520K lets round up and call their taxes 131K. That represents 25% of their after expense income.
Given those facts, I would not find doubling their taxes unreasonable. I mean-hey you want to be fair, so we should only tax people on their income above whats needed to survive RIGHT? We shouldnt tax people on their base survival amounts....right? THATS unfair. The right to life and liberty and all that. So hey. Dont tax people on a certain base income needed to survive, and replace themselves.
And thats what rising inequality does...it moves people more and more into the "just enough to survive" income brackets, while all the other gains go to the top.
And yet...its what you seem to want.
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