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We both know your simply trying to justify a or your lifestyle. Welfare in general applies to a overly large number of programs that entire generations of familieslive off of. It's proven and known period.
This is not about me. Please don't go down a personal attack road.
No, welfare had a specific name. It was changed to TANF in 1996. This is objective reality.
When conservatives spoke about "welfare" reform they meant the program called Welfare.
There is no federal program called welfare. TANF which is has a 5 year lifetime max, has a work requirement, in many states moms don't get anymore money if they have more children while receiving TANF.
So let's be specific what overly large number of programs are you discussing?
What crack are you smoking? A working student is now irresponsible?
The 'Work First' aspect of welfare reform was largely a reaction to a nontrivial number of recipients who were using education and job training as a way to continue getting welfare, rather than to actually get jobs.
This is the problem as I see it, conservatives don't accept stats that show that so called abuse in programs that aid the poor is low.
Well don't lump us all together. What usually happens is you get the trailer park types who didn't study in school, ended up working some **** job their whole life and to justify their abject failure as a human being need to blame other people. They typically want to blame big government and welfare as their easily rationalized targets to those people who are stupid.
Those people don't listen to stats about abuse rates to those programs. Their emotions won't let them accept that reality because then they would have to accept that their failure in life is their own.
Like I said, it seems to me like a lot of it is like giving beer to an alcoholic. Or giving a guy pity for a hangover, which was, of course, unnecessary and self-inflicted.
There have been so many threads on this here at CD. It all comes down to this...there are too many different reasons for applying for/receiving public assistance, and too many behavioral variations of people who use these programs, to make any kind of sweeping generalizations. What results from doing so is an endless argument in which few facts get presented/acknowledged, everybody whips out their own isolated anecdotes, and many more generalizations get made.
So here's my own anecdote, per tradition: I started receiving SNAP benefits five months ago, after trying to avoid it for more than five years, throughout which time I was technically eligible. It wasn't something I wanted to do, and I am going to do my very best to get off the program ASAP. I worked full-time for almost 25 years before applying for food stamps and have paid plenty of taxes, so I do feel I should be able to access this safety net without being shamed by people who think every tax dollar spent is their own. There are many other people like me...honest people in hard times who are not leeches or ingrates.
On the other hand, there are people...and statistically, a relatively small number...who have no respect for the purpose of social welfare programs and abuse them ithout conscience. Not to mention the untold numbers of people at various points in-between.
Bottom line: It is simply wrong-headed to lump all of us together, even for the sake of a question on a web forum. No group of people is anywhere near monolithic once you look even an inch beneath the surface. We should all know by now that life and people are too complicated to be painted with such a broad brush.
In fact we need to stop viewing work and being productive as horrible and evil. Work is therapeutic, it gets people up out of bed, dressed and out doing something positive and gets them around other people.
An alcoholic will do far worse with all kinds of idle time on his/her hands. The boredom harms them. The BEST thing for them is to have something to do, get their minds off drinking.
Personally, I am all for the safety net, as any of us might need it for a while.
But it seems to me that in many cases, welfare, food stamps,etc. are basically bailing people out for bad decisions and support passivity and a victim mentality. For example, I don't blame a single mom if the guy walks out (or she throws an abusive creep out) and she has kids to support, but that is not at all the same as people who: 1) have repeated kids out of wedlock, 2) buy an overpriced house, car, I-Phone, computer, furniture that they cannot afford, and ask for financial assistance from people who live within their means, 3) move across the country with no plan or prospects, and expect to have their lifestyle supported, 4) work part-time and go to college and expect federal assistance. In all the latter cases, access to support for personal irresponsibility just rewards bad behavior. It is, frankly, anti-social behavior. I am getting pretty tired of all the partial welfare stuff too (food stamps,etc.). It all seems to weaken the character.
Like I said, it seems to me like a lot of it is like giving beer to an alcoholic. Or giving a guy pity for a hangover, which was, of course, unnecessary and self-inflicted.
Or it's like giving food to a hungry person?
Last edited by EddieB.Good; 10-26-2013 at 04:24 PM..
What will happen to a 55 year old coal miner with an 8th grade education, a bad back and bad lungs from a lifetime of working in the mines, and knows nothing about any other work, or any other place, when the mine shuts down?
Permanent unemployment for the rest of his life, that's what. And no way to escape.
The same goes for dozens of other occupations in every corner of this nation. That 55 year old miner still has a wife, at least a child or two still living at home, and home is in an impoverished hollow where the mine was the only source of a livable income. He's not alone when the mine shuts down; his 30 year old son and his son's family, his neighbor down the way and his family, their little no-account town, where they buy life's necessities- all end up on welfare, just to stay alive.
This is the new reality in the coal belt, the iron belt, the farm belt. It's the same reality people are facing in many of our largest cities.
Living on welfare is hard. Every day hard, and getting harder every day for millions of folks who have no other choice.
I think welfare serves a purpose. I'm not against it per se, but I do believe it shouldn't be a permanent lifestyle.
I thought Clinton changed some of the welfare laws back in the 90's.
He only redefined some -- for example TANF is the free cash giveaway program that rewards women having babies they can't afford with cash --- in addition to their food stamps, free government provided housing, free health care, WIC coupons, free school meals and much more.
TANF is the only welfare handout that has any time limits on it. After 5 years, no more free cash but the welfare recipients can continue getting food stamps, WIC (6 years each pregnancy), free housing, Medicaid, etc.
SSI is a welfare program that has no time limits on it at all. Once someone gets SSI checks (and in addition, housing subsidies, food stamps, Medicaid), they can stay on it for the rest of their lives.
What will happen to a 55 year old coal miner with an 8th grade education, a bad back and bad lungs from a lifetime of working in the mines, and knows nothing about any other work, or any other place, when the mine shuts down?
Permanent unemployment for the rest of his life, that's what. And no way to escape.
The same goes for dozens of other occupations in every corner of this nation. That 55 year old miner still has a wife, at least a child or two still living at home, and home is in an impoverished hollow where the mine was the only source of a livable income. He's not alone when the mine shuts down; his 30 year old son and his son's family, his neighbor down the way and his family, their little no-account town, where they buy life's necessities- all end up on welfare, just to stay alive.
This is the new reality in the coal belt, the iron belt, the farm belt. It's the same reality people are facing in many of our largest cities.
Living on welfare is hard. Every day hard, and getting harder every day for millions of folks who have no other choice.
That 55 year old miner won't consider driving a tractor or harvester because he figures he can lay around living off the government the rest of his life. Let the 55 year old impoverished illegal alien do all the farm work, the construction work, landscaping, painting and restaurant work. Same for the 30 year old with kids -- why work when you can lay around and never do anything and just let the illegals come and grab up all the jobs.
Why is it so easy for impoverished foreigners who know no English at all to grab up millions of jobs? One thing is they're willing to relocate to where ever the jobs happen to be. They don't have generous welfare handouts that make it seem better to never work.
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