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I don't see why you have to have a label. It seems like you look at each issue and decide based on that. Some issues you seem more in line with a conservative position like education, others like health care more liberal and some like foreign policy more libertarian. You should probably just not worry about labels and think about the candidates and what is important to you in any given election.
I don't see why you have to have a label. It seems like you look at each issue and decide based on that. Some issues you seem more in line with a conservative position like education, others like health care more liberal and some like foreign policy more libertarian. You should probably just not worry about labels and think about the candidates and what is important to you in any given election.
I'm not worried about the label...The entire thread was prompted from a discussion at work. I just thought that, because we love on this forum to discuss the nuances of politics, it would be kind of interesting to see what other people thought based on where I land on the political compass.
I think that I do understand the argument quite well. I think it's you that doesn't understand the gravity of what you presume to understand. You've clearly demonstrated through this series of posts that you're an ideologically blinded puppy void of an origninal thought. But, there is a common theme with you. You don't really answer questions..at least not well. Your argumentative process is consistent at least...I'll give you that. It is as follows. 1). Make baseless claims that you can't back up. 2) Ignore relevant facts from opposing posters with senseless deflections. 3). Insult. 4). Rinse and repeat.
It's fun watching you struggle.
You accuse me of lacking original thought. Yet, here you are saying this:
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There exists a more plausible argument to suggest that unfettered markets are more harmful than government could ever hope to be. The unregulated banking industry replete with collatalized debt obligation, credit default swaps, and derivatives effectively caused almost two trillion dollars to leave the economy in two weeks. The opinion the the U N R E G U L A T E D shadow banking sector was instrumental in the collapse is widely held and accepted amongst economists and analysts of the recession. Further, the bi-partisan FCIC agreed that the lack of regulation with CDO's and CDS' caused the financial woes that we see today. So while you argue with your thong in a bunch that the government is the woe and pain of the US economy and our government lacks the ability to chew gum and walk at the same time you need to objectively analyze what the all powerful and wise free market has given us.
Not one IOTA of this is YOUR understanding, it's what someone told you and you accepted without question, even though it is stupid beyond words.
Now that you've turned to the inevitable recourse of trying to prove that ** I ** am an unworthy person, who simply isn't up to your grand level of intellect, which consists of borrowed thinking and worthless theories, your effort is now to dismiss me as a person, as a way of attempting to void the absolutely inescapable truth of what I say.
I point out (and you are unable to deny) that government does NOTHING well, and EVERYTHING badly, yet, your argument is a THEORY that if government did not do these things badly, the people, left to their own devices, would destroy everything. It's elitist crapola. The idiots running the country have no clue what they're doing, and everything they do reflects that truth with an obviousness that would give you a black eye if you would open them to look. Yet, your argument consists of mere conjecture that somehow, those people have wisdom so much greater than the rest of us who are engaged, that we can't even understand their level of wisdom in what they do.
Or, in other words... "Shut up, you worthless worm, and let us academics risk your future on our stupid theories..."
I've based my opinions off of the economics of scale with regards to the stimulus. The parallels to spending during ww2 as a % of the GDP compared to spending during the recession are not even in the same area code and a comparison of the two is either the product of intellectual dishonesty or poor grasp. Federal spending has been a success with regards to mitigating acute contractions or heavy recessions for decades upon decades. Just study the European countries that have practiced austerity in response to the recession...the numbers don't lie.
Figures don't lie... but liars figure. The problem is that the numbers do NOT mean what you think they do, because the policies AND outcomes fail EVERY basic economics test. I didn't learn economics from a textbook, I learned it from observing reality. Microeconomics is the ONLY valid economic "science" there is, and no matter HOW fancy your theories or complex your math, it FAILS utterly, at EVERY test of sanity.
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My PBS citation is valid because it is technically a federal government affiliate with strings attached to the funding they issue. They dictate a portion of the content...of which a large percentage is educational...that is a success. They don't have to foot the whole bill for the program to be a government affiliate or entity...i.e, the federal reserve.
"PBS is a glowing example of good government because the government funds it..." Whatever you learned in high school, college, and whatever universities you attended... Failed to include "basic logic 101". I learned basic logic and reasoning by falling trees in Montana as a teenager. Funny how that somehow escapes someone who claims high degrees from higher institutions of learning. Maybe I should take you somewhere and teach you a real job for a while, you might learn how to think.
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And it's not selective reasoning...it's an acknowledgment of the outcomes various monetary policies meshed with the good graces to recognize the ones that work...and more importantly the ones that don't.
No, it's not "selective reasoning". It's parroting what someone else told you, and you accept it, because you accepted every other premise they told you to accept.
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Originally Posted by Cyborgt800
^^^^ You have a fanciful notion of what "sounds" good without thinking of what's really involved as well as the consequences....there isn't enough time in the world to educate you...you wouldn't hear it anyway!
Try me. Tell me specifically why.
We now have an additional 11 pages to illustrate WHY I did not explain it to OP! They won't hear it anyway!
Figures don't lie... but liars figure. The problem is that the numbers do NOT mean what you think they do, because the policies AND outcomes fail EVERY basic economics test. I didn't learn economics from a textbook, I learned it from observing reality. Microeconomics is the ONLY valid economic "science" there is, and no matter HOW fancy your theories or complex your math, it FAILS utterly, at EVERY test of sanity.
"PBS is a glowing example of good government because the government funds it..." Whatever you learned in high school, college, and whatever universities you attended... Failed to include "basic logic 101". I learned basic logic and reasoning by falling trees in Montana as a teenager. Funny how that somehow escapes someone who claims high degrees from higher institutions of learning. Maybe I should take you somewhere and teach you a real job for a while, you might learn how to think.
No, it's not "selective reasoning". It's parroting what someone else told you, and you accept it, because you accepted every other premise they told you to accept.
You and I pnwmdk, are wasting our time and energy if the effort is to try to convince one another. I can make my points, you can make your points, but regardless of how valid the others is...it won't likely change either opinion so why waste your or my time? You're clearly an ardent libertarian and I'm not, so any level of government assistance I suggest will be met with aggression from you. Likewise, regardless of how much you'd like to see the country revert to how it was in the 1800's or whatever you want...I will never agree.
We're wasting our time and this is 100% zero sum.
One thing we can probably both agree on......Bacon.
One of the more pretentious political self-descriptions is "Libertarian."
People think it puts them above the fray.
It sounds fashionable, and to the uninitiated, faintly dangerous.
Actually, it's just one more b.s. political philosophy.
The first thing I question is using George Carlin as a benchmark for anything but vulgar humor (which I am a fan of.) The reality is that by Carlin's own words, ANY political philosophy is B.S. Either he was a complete hypocrite, or just telling jokes. To label that as "best" is a marginal belief, at best.
Libertarianism is the antithesis of what today's political parties have devolved into. I find it refreshing that so many once die-hard liberals and conservatives are stepping back to the middle. People are acknowledging that their respective parties have become cesspools of progressive ideology. They are actually embracing the Constitution as written and not as interpreted.
Anyone still believing the two main parties, and especially the DNC... now THAT is a B.S. philosophy.
You and I pnwmdk, are wasting our time and energy if the effort is to try to convince one another. I can make my points, you can make your points, but regardless of how valid the others is...it won't likely change either opinion so why waste your or my time? You're clearly an ardent libertarian and I'm not, so any level of government assistance I suggest will be met with aggression from you. Likewise, regardless of how much you'd like to see the country revert to how it was in the 1800's or whatever you want...I will never agree.
We're wasting our time and this is 100% zero sum.
One thing we can probably both agree on......Bacon.
No, I'm a vegetarian.
This is not a "zero sum game". You want to continue forcing an economic regime on the country that is destroying my kid's future, and that is NOT acceptable. We are responsible for the world we leave them, and we are responsible for leaving them the freedom and liberty and rights that are their birthright... And I refuse to stand by while you steal that from them for nothing more than frippery and corrupt vote-buying.
This is not a "zero sum game". You want to continue forcing an economic regime on the country that is destroying my kid's future, and that is NOT acceptable. We are responsible for the world we leave them, and we are responsible for leaving them the freedom and liberty and rights that are their birthright... And I refuse to stand by while you steal that from them for nothing more than frippery and corrupt vote-buying.
Well vegetarian, I hate to wedge your panties further up your crack any further than I already have but you've presented a litany of worthless, libertarian talking points that carry the political weight of Jesse Ventura while exhausting your mental capacity on insults and poor rebuttals. I do not know what else to tell you...we WILL NEVER agree on economics, the role of government, taxes, fiscal policy...or even bacon. That is what I mean by zero sum...you're not changing my mind...I'm not changing yours. This is a waste of time.
Maybe we can agree on coffee, craft brews, or chocolate chip cookies. If you don't like either of those...you're beyond help.
Well vegetarian, I hate to wedge your panties further up your crack any further than I already have but you've presented a litany of worthless, libertarian talking points that carry the political weight of Jesse Ventura while exhausting your mental capacity on insults and poor rebuttals. I do not know what else to tell you...we WILL NEVER agree on economics, the role of government, taxes, fiscal policy...or even bacon. That is what I mean by zero sum...you're not changing my mind...I'm not changing yours. This is a waste of time.
Maybe we can agree on coffee, craft brews, or chocolate chip cookies. If you don't like either of those...you're beyond help.
I realize you can't be enlightened.
That doesn't mean I let your idiotic nonsense continue to be spewed out without rebuttal. SOMEONE has to stand up and speak truth when all this crap gets spread around. You're not willing to debate the truth of what you say, because you can't. I won't accept your 'experts' opinions, and without them, you have nothing. Empirical evidence is all there is, and it is NOT anywhere NEAR on your side of things.
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