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Old 02-17-2014, 08:46 AM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,972,625 times
Reputation: 2177

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No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Don't you own your money?

Don't you own your labor?

Don't you own your bank account?


So, how is it that what you work for can be taken "for public use" without being compensated?

How is your money (property, no?) taken from you without compensation? How do you compensate for confiscation of your land for a road? Payment. What's the payment for you taking your money to give to the public?
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:49 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,787,000 times
Reputation: 4174
Where does "taking for public use" stop and "taxation" start?

Taxes have been traditionally the money needed to run government.

If your tax money is taken and simply turned over to someone else because some politician decided that guy needed it more than you did, that is different from normal "taxation", since the money is not being used to run any part of government.

Perhaps that falls into the category of "taking property for public usage".
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:52 AM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,972,625 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Where does "taking for public use" stop and "taxation" start?
Does the public use it, or does it fund a function of government?

Is that where the dividing line is?

My question is not whether you can be taxed, it is about what taxes can be used for - what uses are not "public use"?
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:59 AM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,854,052 times
Reputation: 20030
when one is forced by another to give up their money, the government calls it extortion, when the government forces one to give up their money, they call it taxation.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,509,263 times
Reputation: 27720
Texas passed a state amendment a few years back about that.
It gave the people more rights about the land they owned.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:02 AM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,946,204 times
Reputation: 2385
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk View Post
Don't you own your money?

Don't you own your labor?

Don't you own your bank account?


So, how is it that what you work for can be taken "for public use" without being compensated?

How is your money (property, no?) taken from you without compensation? How do you compensate for confiscation of your land for a road? Payment. What's the payment for you taking your money to give to the public?
The 16th amendment outrules any murky interpretation you have on taxation based on the 5th.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:05 AM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,972,625 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
when one is forced by another to give up their money, the government calls it extortion, when the government forces one to give up their money, they call it taxation.
I think everyone except anarchists believes we have to have a government of some kind, and of those, I doubt any think it can be run without some level of taxation. The issue is what it does, and what it does with what it takes from you.

A road, a dam, a government facility... These are generally considered "public purpose" and the owner does have to be compensated. Once you get past that, however, the definition seems to fall apart. Handing my money to my neighbor is hardly defined as "public purpose".
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:05 AM
 
13,303 posts, read 7,873,743 times
Reputation: 2144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
The 16th amendment outrules any murky interpretation you have on taxation based on the 5th.
Since its passage, no court has ever defined "income".

Kool, huh?

More crimes are committed in the gray than in the dark, though the dark spawns the gray.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,714 posts, read 31,184,310 times
Reputation: 9270
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk View Post
Don't you own your money?

Don't you own your labor?

Don't you own your bank account?


So, how is it that what you work for can be taken "for public use" without being compensated?

How is your money (property, no?) taken from you without compensation? How do you compensate for confiscation of your land for a road? Payment. What's the payment for you taking your money to give to the public?
You seem to have a primitive understanding of so many things related to the government. The government's power to tax is explicitly written into the Constitution in Article 1, Section 8. Limitations on taxation are outlined in many places.

Taxation is not the same as confiscation.

Governments need money to function. How do you propose they get it?
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:14 AM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,946,204 times
Reputation: 2385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperthetic View Post
Since its passage, no court has ever defined "income".

Kool, huh?

More crimes are committed in the gray than in the dark, though the dark spawns the gray.
That is incorrect. State courts define income in divorce and custody cases everyday... just to name a few.
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