Pres. Barack Obama and the ugliness of the new economy.

[Goinback2011]

Remember all the 'green jobs' Obama was going to create?

[afoigrokerkok]

Originally Posted by greywar

hmmm mixture. I've seen enough people blame unions when it was the corporate heads pillaging the financials. I kind of think we need a "different" sort of union. One with fewer union heads, and where the union heads have a set pay rate that is a combination of the rate the employees get, and the long term survival of the company. Something that encourages a good deal for a company and the employees both.

There were great unions that over time have become too much like the companys they fought. LOL. Stare into the Abyss long enough, and you'll find it staring back.

Originally Posted by mlassoff

It's a double edged sword.

But, the reason we've seen job losses is not unions alone. Executive compensation is now as much as 900X worker compensation. That's an increase of well over 500%. Union wages are lower when adjusted for inflation.

Union jobs have also been the victim of automation and computerization.

It's not simple.

I agree that it's not simple. Some jobs are never coming back and that simply needs to be accepted. We need more education and training of workers to function in the new economy. I don't see increased automation as a bad thing. In fact, I think increased efficiency is almost always better in the long run for the economy, including the job market specifically. However it may take awhile to get to the right equilibrium.

I don't really agree with that idea, greywar, but I do find it interesting. About pay rates that employees get - part of why I feel unions are bad is that individual employees lack negotiation power for themselves. Different employees even in the same position sometimes deserve different pay and unions make that difficult to impossible to provide.

As far as union wages being lower, mlassoff, I'd argue that as an example of why unions aren't longer as effective as they used to be. I should also mention that I agree there's too much corruption and greed at the top in many companies (though I don't think high executive compensation in and of itself is a bad thing). And I certainly never meant to suggest that unions are solely responsible for job losses.

I'm certainly not saying unions should be illegal or anything. However, a true employees' job market would solve most or all of the problems that unions have. When employers must compete for employees rather than the other way around, employees don't have to tolerate low pay or poor or unsafe working conditions. They can simply leave. If no employees are willing to work for an employer, the business will go under. That is a fair market.

[wutitiz]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

There is a statistical correlation between the downfall of unions and and the fall in earnings by the Middle Class. Just saying.

These workers that I posted about are union, specifically Teamsters. The Teamsters have a lot of warehouse workers on their membership rolls. The Teamsters have basically stood by while working conditions have deteriorated to the point where workers are seeking medical treatment for stress.

Of course it could be argued that a unionized company like Safeway is in competition with non-union WalMart, and now even w/ Amazon, so the Teamsters' hands are basically tied.

[Hyperthetic]

Avoid any establishment using the terms, "safe", "guaranty", "fidelity", "trust", etc. in its name.

I have found the those terms conceal the opposite.