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Old 03-03-2014, 08:38 PM
 
2,117 posts, read 1,881,656 times
Reputation: 1128

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Over the course of 2 long years, the Bush administration, in conjunction with British intelligence, the CIA and a supporting majority vote from congress, systematically invaded and dismantled the sovereign nation of Iraq, from air, land and sea.

Fast forward 11 years, and Russia invades a former soviet state, and ethnically Russian region of neighboring Ukraine, while Ukraine is in revolutionary chaos, without even firing a shot.

Neither invasion was conducted under the sanction of the UN security council, and both were resoundingly opposed in the global community, and we have the nerve to sit here on our fat American asses and be pissed about this?

We're a nation of hypocrites, and I'm sick of it.

We no longer live in a world where the United States is able to exert it's financial and political capital across the globe. Why? Because we gave that away. We gave that away when congress voted to invade Iraq under fabricated and downright false pretenses.

We invaded Iraq unsanctioned by the UN security council, and under a drunken cloud of global sympathetic American nationalism after the 9/11 attacks.

We told the world that "when you attack us, we lose our collective ****ing minds."

We screwed up.

Now, what happens when an insolvent, divided, morally bankrupt and militarily aggressive superpower invades another sovereign nation? Well, you set an example and reap what you sow.

So let's all stop pretending that we're mad about this Russian invasion, as imitation the best form of flattery, and Russia, apparently, wants to be just like us.
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:42 PM
 
11,181 posts, read 10,537,988 times
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I'll be surprised if you get much argument.

The only anger I've seen on this forum is not directed toward Russia/Putin but toward Obama.
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:47 PM
 
2,117 posts, read 1,881,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
I'll be surprised if you get much argument.

The only anger I've seen on this forum is not directed toward Russia/Putin but toward Obama.
Honestly, I think Obama has been a terrible president, but he's backed into a corner because of his predecessor.

When your predecessor acts as militarily belligerent as Bush did, he's got no recourse for foreign policy disasters such as this.
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:48 PM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,134,648 times
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Your entire premise is based off of hindsight 20/20. You have the advantage of looking backwards to declare the Iraq evidence as "fabricated" and "false pretenses." Therefore you really don't have any standing to declare America as "hypocrites" unless you believe the entire world's intelligence apparatus was in fact in cahoots with George W. Bush. If you believe that Bush held that much sway over the world intelligence gatherers ..... who had been tracking Iraq WMD since before Bush became President..... then you're literally the only person on the planet ho holds that view.

Easy to use a pretense when looking backwards for your evidence.
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:52 PM
 
2,117 posts, read 1,881,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Your entire premise is based off of hindsight 20/20. You have the advantage of looking backwards to declare the Iraq evidence as "fabricated" and "false pretenses." Therefore you really don't have any standing to declare America as "hypocrites" unless you believe the entire world's intelligence apparatus was in fact in cahoots with George W. Bush.
Uh, yes, we can. That is the luxury of hindsight, and the general principle of identifying hypocrisy... looking to the past.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:01 PM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,134,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Some_Random_Guy View Post
Uh, yes, we can. That is the luxury of hindsight, and the general principle of identifying hypocrisy... looking to the past.
True, but your underlying assertion is that, because of Iraq, we never again can stand up against countries that threaten the sovereignty of another country. I fundamentally disagree with that assertion.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:07 PM
 
2,117 posts, read 1,881,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
True, but your underlying assertion is that, because of Iraq, we never again can stand up against countries that threaten the sovereignty of another country. I fundamentally disagree with that assertion.
Oh no, we surely can. But nobody is going to take us seriously, especially when we underscore some of the logistical and economic factors that make any sort of response to Russia... well... completely ineffective.

This is not all Bush's fault, and this is not all Obama's fault. Over the course of a half century, Europe has allowed themselves to sit inside the Russian gun barrel by relying on their natural gas to fuel their region, among some other geo-political and militarily strategic blunders.

Russia is calling the shots. Russia and only Russia.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:10 PM
 
17,440 posts, read 9,275,650 times
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Can we all just pretend that George Bush is not the President?
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:13 PM
 
2,117 posts, read 1,881,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibby View Post
Can we all just pretend that George Bush is not the President?
Sure, when his vendettas stop haunting us years later.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Area 51.5
13,887 posts, read 13,678,384 times
Reputation: 9174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Some_Random_Guy View Post
Honestly, I think Obama has been a terrible president, but he's backed into a corner because of his predecessor.

When your predecessor acts as militarily belligerent as Bush did, he's got no recourse for foreign policy disasters such as this.
lol. Don't you people ever tire of blaming Bush for everything?

It got old about 6 years ago. Really old. Boring.

But kinda funny in a sick way.

Keep it up. I need the laughs.
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