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Old 06-15-2014, 09:20 AM
 
1,347 posts, read 954,602 times
Reputation: 589

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharks With Lasers View Post
This seems like a positive to me. Both mainstream Republicans and Democrats are in love with big business and corporate interests. I think that in order to lessen these effects, we need a coalition of right and left ideas to avoid it being associated with one party. This will allow people to work together.
Ideally, the republican party will transform into a rational one, jettisoning the corporate and religious fanatic wings, leaving it as a conservative voice much more accurately representing the interests of the middle class.

The vast middle in the US today, about 75-80% of the population, leans conservative, despises corporate interests, is socially liberal, and wants illegals deported with a general timeout of legal immigration. They want the 14th amendment altered so that the jus soli policy is eliminated, and that the billions wasted on illegals and useless foreign aid to enemy countries stopped, so that the money is spent here on Americans. The illegals will be sent en masse back to the countries of origin, with a massive wall built on the souther border and a zero tolerance for both illegals and employers, no amnesty today or ever.

The corporate interests will be left to fend for themselves, let them start their own party so they will no longer be able to hide under the blanket of the GOP pretending to be a positive force for this country - they absolutely are not. Time Warner, Comcast, Exxon, Apple with its $160 BBN cash hoard, GM and its horrendously poorly manufactured cars that kill people, will no longer have the protection of a political party willing to sacrifice its moral standing for campaign dollars.

There is no concept that the democratic party or the corporates fear more, as the NYT article attests, than a republican party that focuses on the vast middle of the country, from a conservative perspective. It would literally transform this country's political landscape overnight - it just will require a Tea Party that grows in power to force the GOP to take these steps, which are hardly leaps. The original republican party back in the 1800s was closer to these ideals, it is time for it to return to its roots.
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:49 AM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,284,457 times
Reputation: 5565
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadisonR View Post
Ideally, the republican party will transform into a rational one, jettisoning the corporate and religious fanatic wings, leaving it as a conservative voice much more accurately representing the interests of the middle class.

The vast middle in the US today, about 75-80% of the population, leans conservative, despises corporate interests, is socially liberal, and wants illegals deported with a general timeout of legal immigration. They want the 14th amendment altered so that the jus soli policy is eliminated, and that the billions wasted on illegals and useless foreign aid to enemy countries stopped, so that the money is spent here on Americans. The illegals will be sent en masse back to the countries of origin, with a massive wall built on the souther border and a zero tolerance for both illegals and employers, no amnesty today or ever.

The corporate interests will be left to fend for themselves, let them start their own party so they will no longer be able to hide under the blanket of the GOP pretending to be a positive force for this country - they absolutely are not. Time Warner, Comcast, Exxon, Apple with its $160 BBN cash hoard, GM and its horrendously poorly manufactured cars that kill people, will no longer have the protection of a political party willing to sacrifice its moral standing for campaign dollars.

There is no concept that the democratic party or the corporates fear more, as the NYT article attests, than a republican party that focuses on the vast middle of the country, from a conservative perspective. It would literally transform this country's political landscape overnight - it just will require a Tea Party that grows in power to force the GOP to take these steps, which are hardly leaps. The original republican party back in the 1800s was closer to these ideals, it is time for it to return to its roots.

Where do you get those stats? That's not really accurate anyway, the only people I know who want illegals thrown back are older and usually hardcore republicans. I also don't know how one can "lean conservative" but then also be "socially liberal". People like that would be described as moderate.
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:51 AM
 
25,848 posts, read 16,532,741 times
Reputation: 16027
No way we are getting rid of the parasites without massive bloodshed.
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Old 06-15-2014, 10:06 AM
 
1,806 posts, read 1,737,946 times
Reputation: 988
Sorry, but the Tea Baggers aren't any more true conservative than anyone else. Largely the movement is just an emotional response by the grass roots part of the conservative party to the Democrats having power nowadays. The only reason why they're getting candidates elected is because the congressional seats are so jury rigged that most anyone can be put forward in the election and win and this puts far too much power in the primary.

I'm yet to hear a tea bagger make points that were anything but an overly emotional, thoughtless diatribe.
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Old 06-15-2014, 10:15 AM
 
1,347 posts, read 954,602 times
Reputation: 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidkitty View Post
Where do you get those stats? That's not really accurate anyway, the only people I know who want illegals thrown back are older and usually hardcore republicans. I also don't know how one can "lean conservative" but then also be "socially liberal". People like that would be described as moderate.
When anyone I've discussed the issue of illegal aliens with, including mentioning the 84 hospitals closed in CA due to them, and detailing the overall costs to the economy of subsidizing them, NO ONE wants to keep them here.

If liberals are going to whine that the actual cost of a person working at Wal-mart or McDonald's is subsidized by the tax-payer via food stamps, welfare, etc., then they cannot turn around and pretend that the low costs for services/products provided by illegals, who are also the beneficiaries of huge amounts of welfare and benefits, are not also a massive hidden cost to the taxpayer. Personally, I am pretty certain that most rational adults would prefer a living wage be paid to an American who does NOT need to be supported with our tax dollars than to have an illegal sneak into this country, make it more crowded, who has to be subsidized by welfare so we can purchase cheap strawberries or hot dogs from a Tyson plant.

It is a hideous version of corporate welfare; Walmart and the farms get cheap labor, the consumer thinks they are getting inexpensive fruit, food, services, etc., but doesn't recognize when their taxes have risen to cover the price difference.

No rational person would not want illegals deported; once the entire set of costs are explained, and the fact that if you do not deport them - millions more will come - it becomes a pretty easy argument.

Second, one can be economically conservative and socially moderate, and still be a True Conservative. The True Conservative does not tell others how to live their personal lives, who to screw, etc.
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Old 06-15-2014, 10:16 AM
 
1,347 posts, read 954,602 times
Reputation: 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
No way we are getting rid of the parasites without massive bloodshed.
If that is what it takes to eradicate the scourge of illegals - whatever means are necessary.
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Old 06-15-2014, 10:20 AM
 
1,347 posts, read 954,602 times
Reputation: 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by remoddahouse View Post
I'm yet to hear a tea bagger make points that were anything but an overly emotional, thoughtless diatribe.
Balancing the federal budget, terminating the massive influx of illegal aliens (and deporting those already here), eliminating wasteful foreign aid to enemy countries, ending corporate welfare not used for R&D, strictly enforcing the anti-trust act to weaken corporate oligarchs like Comcast, Exxon, Time Warner, Verizon, etc., are all "emotional responses"? Huh?
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Old 06-15-2014, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,743,397 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadisonR View Post
Ideally, the republican party will transform into a rational one, jettisoning the corporate and religious fanatic wings, leaving it as a conservative voice much more accurately representing the interests of the middle class.

The vast middle in the US today, about 75-80% of the population, leans conservative, despises corporate interests, is socially liberal, and wants illegals deported with a general timeout of legal immigration. They want the 14th amendment altered so that the jus soli policy is eliminated, and that the billions wasted on illegals and useless foreign aid to enemy countries stopped, so that the money is spent here on Americans. The illegals will be sent en masse back to the countries of origin, with a massive wall built on the souther border and a zero tolerance for both illegals and employers, no amnesty today or ever.

The corporate interests will be left to fend for themselves, let them start their own party so they will no longer be able to hide under the blanket of the GOP pretending to be a positive force for this country - they absolutely are not. Time Warner, Comcast, Exxon, Apple with its $160 BBN cash hoard, GM and its horrendously poorly manufactured cars that kill people, will no longer have the protection of a political party willing to sacrifice its moral standing for campaign dollars.

There is no concept that the democratic party or the corporates fear more, as the NYT article attests, than a republican party that focuses on the vast middle of the country, from a conservative perspective. It would literally transform this country's political landscape overnight - it just will require a Tea Party that grows in power to force the GOP to take these steps, which are hardly leaps. The original republican party back in the 1800s was closer to these ideals, it is time for it to return to its roots.
We remove them and the leftist have no chance in hell of winning the white house for the next 40 years....


illegal immigrates lean so for to the left, fact in the 1.1,000,000 legal immigrates we bring into the nation every year many of them always vote left....We will blow the breath out of the leftist.....

Cantor losing is just proof of this...Americans are standing up for our nation, our culture, our values, our liberty, our freedoms, our rights, and our future like never before aided by the internet, we are unstoppable...
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Old 06-15-2014, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
5,177 posts, read 4,792,616 times
Reputation: 2587
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
while the last statement is true, it is also true that what is good for america is also good for business. so while the true conservative is anti crony capitalism, they in fact are pro business.
Nice tap dancing, my friend. And you know I follow you and rep you and appreciate your point of view.

The real problem is that some SCOTUS decision or other defined corporations as individuals. The root of all matter.

I have no problem with CEO's and executive management starting their own association, funded with money from their own (not the company's) money. Kinda like ACORN and Code Pink and whatever right wing free associations there are.

I have a REAL problem with corporations and unions (which are corporations) using membership and shareholder and customer money to influence our elected so called representatives.

Want to end crony capitalism? Legislate against corporations having the same rights with the specific rights as real people with first amendment rights.

Would solve a LOT of problems.
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:24 PM
 
1,806 posts, read 1,737,946 times
Reputation: 988
Quote:
Balancing the federal budget, terminating the massive influx of illegal aliens (and deporting those already here), eliminating wasteful foreign aid to enemy countries, ending corporate welfare not used for R&D, strictly enforcing the anti-trust act to weaken corporate oligarchs like Comcast, Exxon, Time Warner, Verizon, etc., are all "emotional responses"? Huh?
Largely, yes. I've talked to few people who are 'conservative' who can tell me latent and manifest consequences of any of the above and typically they're more concerned about abortion and gun control than any of that. For instance, they love Palin even though she was for the bridge to nowhere. To boot, this whole fiscal conservative thing comes up whenever the democrats are in power, but back in the 2000's when we had the house, senate and Presidency, nobody was talking about cutting the budget.

What you're talking about is a pipe dream and the most of the people who call themselves true conservatives are 100% against abortion and 100% in favor of whatever the NRA tells them.
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