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Old 08-07-2014, 02:39 PM
 
34,289 posts, read 19,464,957 times
Reputation: 17262

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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that employees, at times, have had power. This has been the case to an extent as recently as the mid 2000s and certainly in the late 90s. People who don't like the pay can say "pay me more or I'll quit." If a large number of unskilled workers are able to have this attitude, businesses are forced to raise pay.
Sooo...you're all for unions? Theyre dead mostly. they represent a increasingly small number of people.
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:40 PM
 
34,289 posts, read 19,464,957 times
Reputation: 17262
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
Or they could offshore the jobs. I called a customer service line last week expecting to talk to someone in India and I ended up talking with someone in KY or SC. At some price level that job will not be worth doing in the USA and the company will transfer the call center overseas.
No worries, outsourced jobs will be among the first to be replaced by automation as well.
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:41 PM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,495,868 times
Reputation: 4245
I don't understand the Left on this issue. Do they actually believe that the more someone makes that means there is less for them to make? It doesn't work like that. If you are educated and have a skill then you will make more regardless of who else makes what. If I make a dollar more an hour, that's not a dollar less that you can make, we can BOTH make the extra dollar, but your skills and performance need to dictate that extra money. It seems to be only skill-less or lazy non-go-getters that want things like a basic income, people who do better for themselves don't even think of it. It really looks like the answer is skill and performance, not handouts and thievery.
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,975 posts, read 16,515,945 times
Reputation: 4586
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Sooo...you're all for unions? Theyre dead mostly. they represent a increasingly small number of people.
Unions take away power from individual workers so, no, I am not for them. You don't need a union to stick up for yourself.
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:44 PM
 
34,289 posts, read 19,464,957 times
Reputation: 17262
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Unions take away power from individual workers so, no, I am not for them. You don't need a union to stick up for yourself.
Bwahahahahhaa

Worker "If you don't pay me more I will quit"
Boss "Hope your kids enjoy foodstamps, later!"

individuals have VERY little leverage in the wage discussion.
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:44 PM
 
79,909 posts, read 44,422,124 times
Reputation: 17214
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
I don't understand the Left on this issue. Do they actually believe that the more someone makes that means there is less for them to make? It doesn't work like that. If you are educated and have a skill then you will make more regardless of who else makes what. If I make a dollar more an hour, that's not a dollar less that you can make, we can BOTH make the extra dollar, but your skills and performance need to dictate that extra money. It seems to be only skill-less or lazy non-go-getters that want things like a basic income, people who do better for themselves don't even think of it. It really looks like the answer is skill and performance, not handouts and thievery.
Sitting back while the government prints money for you really isn't a skill. In any form of the problem.
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:45 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,655 posts, read 45,271,922 times
Reputation: 13886
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
We bailed out institutions-many not even American-
That's because the federal government's HUD caused the damage, worldwide:
Quote:
"Former Democratic Rep. Barney Frank, co-author of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, said in a recent forum on the crisis that the government — through its decades-long national homeownership campaign and affordable housing goals — "propelled" lenders and investors to excesses they would not have otherwise gone to in the absence of such political incentives.

Frank, former chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, made the stunning remarks at the close of a 90-minute panel discussion hosted by the American Action Forum and held earlier this month in Washington.

...But soon, Frank dropped several unexpected bombshells in response to questioning by the moderator, CNBC anchor Steve Liesman.

Asked about the government's affordable housing goals compelling Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the crisis to devote more than half their portfolios to riskier nonprime mortgages for low-income borrowers, Frank blurted out: "No more goals, no more telling the private sector" how to invest in the housing market.

"Barney," Liesman asked, "are you suggesting that the goals of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the concept of promoting homeownership, was something that contributed to the crisis?"

"Yes, it was, very much so — and Bill Clinton did it, and George Bush did it, everybody did it," Frank said."
FedSoc Blog

Note that the specifically mentioned HUD mandate compelling Fannie and Freddie to devote more than half their purchases to riskier nonprime mortgages for low-income borrowers was issued during the Clinton Admin.

http://www.huduser.org/publications/pdf/gse.pdf

Fannie and Freddie, "the two largest sources of housing finance in the United States," were forced by HUD mandates to buy more than 50% high-risk loans from originators (Countrywide, etc.), subsequently repackaging them as MBS and selling them to investors worldwide without disclosing the fact that they were largely composed of HUD-mandated high-risk loans. As those high-risk loans began defaulting at critical mass, the 2008 financial crisis ensued.
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:49 PM
 
34,289 posts, read 19,464,957 times
Reputation: 17262
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
I don't understand the Left on this issue. Do they actually believe that the more someone makes that means there is less for them to make? It doesn't work like that. If you are educated and have a skill then you will make more regardless of who else makes what. If I make a dollar more an hour, that's not a dollar less that you can make, we can BOTH make the extra dollar, but your skills and performance need to dictate that extra money. It seems to be only skill-less or lazy non-go-getters that want things like a basic income, people who do better for themselves don't even think of it. It really looks like the answer is skill and performance, not handouts and thievery.
Im a software engineer doing some amazingly complex work, and I am paid extremely well. Funny...*I* want a basic income....in about 5-10 years. I think it removes a lot of the overhead of our current system, is given to all equally, and removes work disincentives. Theres also a large discussion revolving around technology changes that I believe are coming.

As for the inequality discussion theres a fairly large body of evidence that as it gets increasingly larger its not good for a society, or a economy. And increasingly the people on the "top" really are not all that deserving of it to be honest. (6 out of the top 10 inherited it for example).

And the movement of money through an economy accelerates the growth of that economy.
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:51 PM
 
34,289 posts, read 19,464,957 times
Reputation: 17262
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
That's because the federal government's HUD caused the damage, worldwide:FedSoc Blog

Note that the specifically mentioned HUD mandate compelling Fannie and Freddie to devote more than half their purchases to riskier nonprime mortgages for low-income borrowers was issued during the Clinton Admin.

http://www.huduser.org/publications/pdf/gse.pdf

Fannie and Freddie, "the two largest sources of housing finance in the United States," were forced by HUD mandates to buy more than 50% high-risk loans from originators (Countrywide, etc.), subsequently repackaging them as MBS and selling them to investors worldwide without disclosing the fact that they were largely composed of HUD-mandated high-risk loans. As those high-risk loans began defaulting at critical mass, the 2008 financial crisis ensued.
Youre trying to move the discussion from whether bailing out private companies is a good idea, to one of assigning blame. Even more interesting is your qoute makes it clear that the blame was on multiple administrations. But thats not the point, the point is....we should not bailout those folks. It doesn't matter who was to blame. And Fannie and Freddie were only a small part of the cause.
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:56 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,655 posts, read 45,271,922 times
Reputation: 13886
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Bwahahahahhaa

Worker "If you don't pay me more I will quit"
Boss "Hope your kids enjoy foodstamps, later!"

individuals have VERY little leverage in the wage discussion.
Especially at lower income levels as more and more uneducated and unskilled immigrants flood that labor market. Hang on for the ride; things are going to get much worse at the bottom of the pay scale.
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