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Old 11-15-2014, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,574 posts, read 37,191,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
It exists in Canada too.
But not directly caused by medical bills....... In Canada medical and hospital bills are taken care of, but if the illness or injury causes a person to be unable to work for a prolonged time that will cause financial difficulties.
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Old 11-15-2014, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Meggett, SC
11,011 posts, read 11,043,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
But not directly caused by medical bills....... In Canada medical and hospital bills are taken care of, but if the illness or injury causes a person to be unable to work for a prolonged time that will cause financial difficulties.
And that's the usual reason for bankruptcy when someone is injured or ill in the US too. I know the stats on that has been cited numerous times on these boards.
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Old 11-15-2014, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,574 posts, read 37,191,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbel View Post
And that's the usual reason for bankruptcy when someone is injured or ill in the US too. I know the stats on that has been cited numerous times on these boards.
No, medical bills are the biggest cause of bankruptcy in the US...Even outside of bankruptcy, about 56 million adults—more than 20 percent of the population between the ages of 19 and 64—will still struggle with health-care-related bills this year, according to NerdWallet Health. Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study
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Old 11-15-2014, 09:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
No, medical bills are the biggest cause of bankruptcy in the US... Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study
As well as in Canada.
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Old 11-15-2014, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Meggett, SC
11,011 posts, read 11,043,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
No, medical bills are the biggest cause of bankruptcy in the US...Even outside of bankruptcy, about 56 million adults—more than 20 percent of the population between the ages of 19 and 64—will still struggle with health-care-related bills this year, according to NerdWallet Health. Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study
If you read their actual findings, they decided to exclude bankruptcies because of lost work.

NerdWallet Health finds Medical Bankruptcy accounts for majority of personal bankruptcies - Health
Quote:
NerdWallet Health chose to include only bankruptcy explicitly tied to medical bills, excluding indirect reasons like lost work opportunities.
So, why did they have to go into bankruptcy from getting injured or ill? Well, it wasn't because they didn't have health insurance.

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com

Quote:
They concluded that 62.1 percent of the bankruptcies were medically related because the individuals either had more than $5,000 (or 10 percent of their pretax income) in medical bills, mortgaged their home to pay for medical bills, or lost significant income due to an illness. On average, medically bankrupt families had $17,943 in out-of-pocket expenses, including $26,971 for those who lacked insurance and $17,749 who had insurance at some point.

Overall, three-quarters of the people with a medically-related bankruptcy had health insurance, they say.
They had insurance and still declared bankruptcy. You tell me. Someone who is sick and unable to work. How do you think they can do with paying for those medical bills or any of their bills? It's disingenuous to say that medical bills only caused their bankruptcies. No, it was them getting injured or sick that caused it because then they couldn't work.
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Old 11-15-2014, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,574 posts, read 37,191,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbel View Post
If you read their actual findings, they decided to exclude bankruptcies because of lost work.

NerdWallet Health finds Medical Bankruptcy accounts for majority of personal bankruptcies - Health


So, why did they have to go into bankruptcy from getting injured or ill? Well, it wasn't because they didn't have health insurance.

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com



They had insurance and still declared bankruptcy. You tell me. Someone who is sick and unable to work. How do you think they can do with paying for those medical bills or any of their bills? It's disingenuous to say that medical bills only caused their bankruptcies. No, it was them getting injured or sick that caused it because then they couldn't work.
True enough....
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Old 11-15-2014, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,574 posts, read 37,191,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
As well as in Canada.
Actually not true...The last on our list of leading causes of bankruptcy in Canada, are medical problems; they often can and do lead to a lot of financial problems. Fortunately, in Canada most of our medical expenses, such as hospital care, are covered by the government, unlike in the United States where medical bills for uninsured Americans are a leading cause of bankruptcy in America. Causes of bankruptcy in Canada
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Old 11-15-2014, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,835 posts, read 19,525,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
No, medical bills are the biggest cause of bankruptcy in the US...Even outside of bankruptcy, about 56 million adults—more than 20 percent of the population between the ages of 19 and 64—will still struggle with health-care-related bills this year, according to NerdWallet Health. Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study
oh please.....why do you lie

those studies have been DEBUNKED


the harvard study, first made in a 2005 Health Affairs article, is at variance with four decades of economic research, including a finding that even large medical bills have no impact on family living standards.
The paper by David Himmelstein, Elizabeth Warren, Deborah Thorne, and Steffie Woolhandler was published as a Health Affairs web exclusive on February 5, 2005. The authors are strong proponents of government run health care.

The data comes from 1,250 personal bankruptcy cases, assumed to be representative of the almost 1.5 million households that filed for bankruptcy in 2001. The data on each bankruptcy were abstracted from court records and supplemented with 931 telephone interviews. The paper's conclusions about illnesses in households were based on medical interviews conducted with 391 people. The paper does not specify how those people were selected. It does say that Himmelstein and Woolhandler (H & W), both MDs, coded the diagnoses given by debtors into the categories used for the analysis.

The classifications used to determine a medical bankruptcy were odd. Only 28.3 percent of the sample cited self-reported illness or injury as a cause of bankruptcy. However, H & W managed to almost double that figure (to 54.5 percent) by counting the following as "illnesses":

•1. A birth or addition of a new family member
•2. A death in a family
•3. A drug or alcohol addiction
•4. Uncontrolled gambling
•5. Loss of at least 2 weeks of work-related income due to illness or injury by anyone in the household
•6. Out-of-pocket medical bills of $1,000 in the two years before filing by anyone in the household
•7. Mortgaging a home to pay medical bills.
In a 2005 article in the Northwestern University Law Review, Prof. Todd J. Zywicki called the $1,000 threshold for contributing medical debt "indefensible." That's an understatement. By H & W criteria, a bankruptcy with $50,000 in student loans and $1,001 in unpaid medical bills would be classified as a "medical bankruptcy." Moreover, the average U.S. household had out-of-pocket expenses of $2,182 in 2001!

In a 2006 review (gated) of the H & W study results in Health Affairs, David Dranove and Michael L. Millenson:

•Recalculate the medical bankruptcy rate using the data given in the H & W paper. They conclude that just 17 percent of the H & W sample "had medical expenditure bankruptcies," although it cannot be stated "with any degree of certainty whether medical spending was the most important cause of bankruptcy."
•Explain that "four decades of studies have addressed the bankruptcy-medical spending connection" and that the results from those studies are much closer to their 17 percent estimate than to the 54.5 percent estimates of H & W.
•Cite a 2002 Fay, Hurst, and White American Economic Review study, which found no statistical link between bankruptcies and health problems.
•Cite a 1999 Domowitz and Sartain Journal of Finance study, which found that high medical debt raised the probability of bankruptcy for the tiny proportion of the population that had high medical debt, but that at the margin, credit cards were the largest single contribution to bankruptcy.
Moreover, Helen Levy in an Economic Research Initiative on the Uninsured working paper estimated the effect of being diagnosed with a serious new health condition, (cancer, diabetes, heart attack, chronic lung disease, or stroke) and found that household consumption "remains smooth" in the face of serious health shocks for both insured and uninsured households.


and YET:
A study by the Department of Justice examined more than 5,000 bankruptcy cases between 2000 and 2002. It found that 54% of bankruptcies involve no medical debt, and more than 90% have medical debt of less than $5,000. Even among the minority of bankruptcies that report medical debt, only a few have enough to cause personal bankruptcy.
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Old 11-15-2014, 10:25 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,279,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Actually not true...The last on our list of leading causes of bankruptcy in Canada, are medical problems; they often can and do lead to a lot of financial problems. Fortunately, in Canada most of our medical expenses, such as hospital care, are covered by the government, unlike in the United States where medical bills for uninsured Americans are a leading cause of bankruptcy in America. Causes of bankruptcy in Canada
The leading cause of US bankruptcy is spending beyond your means.

http://www.medlib.ch/documents/09%20...uptcyRates.pdf
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Old 11-15-2014, 10:27 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,279,027 times
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Something else to add. The Elizabeth Warren study picked the year before the USA BK laws were to be tightened, so the BK rate higher that year as more people rushed their filings in order to get approved.

Bankruptcy: Comparing Ourselves With Our Neighbor to the North - The Atlantic
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