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Just another day with the greatest healthcare system on earth, right guys!?!?!?
But hey, she deserved what she got.
I mean how lazy can you be. She should have woken up from her coma and demanded that she be transferred over to the hospital up the street....right!?!?!?!?!
I am glad I live in a state with that horrible idea of 'govt regulations' were I don't have to worry about this crap.
you will see more/worse when employers start setting out of network Maximums for plan payment. I.e 15% for a service we estimate is 10,000 so we pay 8,500. Yet the hospital charges 19k not 10k. . .
Though in this situation the beef should be with the hospital over charging her, the insurance is paying a pretty good rate. Hospitals often mark up their bills about 100% (i.e. charge 350k) and then if the insurer signs on they discount in half (150k). I bet the hospital does 150k for other plans they contract with.
300k is a bs number, and they have her on the hook for it.
Suppressed Evidence Intentionally failing to use information suspected of being relevant and significant is committing the fallacy of suppressed evidence. This fallacy usually occurs when the information counts against one’s own conclusion.
I'll give people the facts that your refuse to give people.
The American Hospital Association created the "Out-of-Network" clause in 1939 to force non-member hospitals out of business or to force them to join the AHA. These hospitals were mainly were members or affiliated with the American Medical Association or were independent private hospitals.
In 1946, the American Hospital Association launches the Blue Cross insurance company. The "Out-of-Network" clause is the cornerstone, barring competition against the Blue Cross.
Later, during the 1980s, EMTALA was enacted to prevent the American Hospital Association/Blue Cross from dumping patients.
The American Hospital Association with help from State and federal governments created the "greatest healthcare system on earth."
The many State laws governing insurance regulation were enacted through the lobbying efforts of the American Hospital Association, so you cannot blame insurance companies.
Not only does the American Hospital Association have monopoly control over US hospitals, it is gaining monopoly control over "health insurance" companies.
But then you think the Global Warming Fairy is real.
That's a fallacy.
Questionable Premise If you have sufficient background information to know that a premise is questionable or unlikely to be acceptable, then you use this fallacy if you accept an argument based on that premise.
Medical care is intra-State commerce. Cite those Supreme Court decisions that you believe contradict this Truth & Reality.
Health plan coverage aka "health insurance" is intra-State commerce. Cite those Supreme Court decisions that you believe contradict this Truth & Reality.
Neither the president nor Congress have the power to repeal State laws. If you believe otherwise, cite the Supreme Court case to support your claim.
Finally, explain why your old system was broken, and cite evidence.
Just another stomping with Reality....
Mircea
So you show me a study that is 12 years old regarding health care in Ontario to refute my statement? Do you have an up to date one that actually applies to the medical services plan in BC, where I actually live?
There are some pretty steep payroll taxes in Cananda, and in BC a 12% sales tax. Plus a BC province tax of 10% on $100k of income. I just plugged $100k into an online calculator for British Columbia and they take about half. It cost you a little more than $69.
I have argued for years that when the progressives are ready to tax their constituents like they do in the countries that idolize then more power to them. A family in the US earning $100k with a couple of kids and a mortgage pays half as much as the comparable family in Canada. The big tax dollars are paid by the $250k+ crowd. You know, the evil 1%'ers.
Canadian taxes are more regressive than the US. It's a trade off. It works for Canada. Good for you guys.
Is this what you mean by payroll taxes?
Quote:
Employers are required to remit various types of payroll taxes to the different jurisdictions they operate in:
In which country was and is there a groundswell to change the health care system- the US, Canada, Germany, France, the UK? People across the world would overthrow their governments if they dared to say we are going to install the US system of HC pre-ACA on our citizens. How do you think the R's would do if they said they would repeal ACA and go back to the old system?
The US system was broken and while ACA is not the answer it might be a step in the right direction if the partisans could step back and fix what needs fixing.
For me I want to see Medicare for every citizens with the ability to purchase gap policies. You know exactly what we have for everyone over 65 now.
Just another day with the greatest healthcare system on earth, right guys!?!?!?
But hey, she deserved what she got.
I mean how lazy can you be. She should have woken up from her coma and demanded that she be transferred over to the hospital up the street....right!?!?!?!?!
I am glad I live in a state with that horrible idea of 'govt regulations' were I don't have to worry about this crap.
uhm.,...its her bill
this would be the same with singlepayer....some one has to pay the costs of care
No other First-world country comes with a $50K surprise bill because the ambulance drove to the wrong hospital.
THIS is the issue. Had she been driven three blocks away by the ambulance crew, she would have been covered as that hospital was in her network, so was reported on the news yesterday. The ambulance crew didn't know her insurance network, obviously. They took her to the closest hospital as her life was in danger.
Frankly, the situation this woman finds herself in, owing $50,000 for her out of network care, is not unique. Out of town or in town and need emergency care? If not taken to the hospital in YOUR network this ER care could bankrupt a person as there is NO cap on most policies I've been reviewing for out of network. And even if hospital is in network, a doctor who works on you may not be so you could be on the hook for payment over and above negotiated rate for out of network at least that is my understanding. I'm no lawyer or expert.
Scary stuff and something we had never thought of in the past.
Last edited by texan2yankee; 11-15-2014 at 11:56 AM..
THIS is the issue. Had she been driven three blocks away by the ambulance crew, she would have been covered as that hospital was in her network, so was reported on the news yesterday. The ambulance crew didn't know her insurance network, obviously. They took her to the closest hospital as her life was in danger.
Frankly, the situation this woman finds herself in, owing $50,000 for her out of network care, is not unique. Out of town or in town and need emergency care? If not taken to the hospital in YOUR network this ER care could bankrupt a person as there is NO cap on most policies I've been reviewing for out of network. And even if hospital is in network, a doctor who works on you may not be so you could be on the hook for payment over and above negotiated rate for out of network at least that is my understanding. I'm no lawyer or expert.
Scary stuff and something we had never thought of in the past.
This is dependent on which state you live in. Where I live, we have these things called regulations were this isn't allowed. ER visits and doctors with in an ER are considered in network, and cannot balance bill, under any circumstances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom1944
In which country was and is there a groundswell to change the health care system- the US, Canada, Germany, France, the UK? People across the world would overthrow their governments if they dared to say we are going to install the US system of HC pre-ACA on our citizens. How do you think the R's would do if they said they would repeal ACA and go back to the old system?
The US system was broken and while ACA is not the answer it might be a step in the right direction if the partisans could step back and fix what needs fixing.
For me I want to see Medicare for every citizens with the ability to purchase gap policies. You know exactly what we have for everyone over 65 now.
Sounds like the French model. They have Medicare for all, except only 70% of the costs are covered and people buy gap insurance for what is not covered. They have ranked number one for their health model for quite some time now.
No other First-world country comes with a $50K surprise bill because the ambulance drove to the wrong hospital.
uhm...your correct...they get the bills as a tax
fact....to cover 320 million people (our population) will cost between 3 - 6 trillion dollars yearly
fact there are only about 75 million taxpayers....145 million tax filers of which 47% have a zero or negative tax liability
fact that would equal out (average) to 40k to 80k per taxpayer
health care (the actual care) is not cheap
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