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As long as wages increase faster or at a minimum keep pace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry
Yet you provide no evidence
You missed the point. The reason for our out of control inflation is government getting involved in the economy. The point is prices are rising a lot faster than wages and to say inflation is low because government figures say so while ignoring actual prices increasing is silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
So inflation is good, the general rising of prices for goods in an economy, but deflation is bad, the general decreasing of prices for goods in an economy?
Personal incredulity Assuming that because you find something difficult to understand, or are unaware of how it works, that it probably isn't true.
And then you have the unmitigated gall to argue that the minimum wage should be increased so that people can afford the prices for goods in an economy.
Your brain, along with many others on this forum, is stuck in a static way of thinking. That's really no surprise because thinking dynamically requires a brain that thinks for itself in reality, not one that has someone else think for it and all it can do is repeat talking points in a Borg-like manner.
Ad hominem Attacking your opponents character in an attempt to undermine their argument
Stay in the shallow end until I tell you to come out.
Yes lets believe the ones whose job it is to control inflation to be honest about that number. The Fed has as much credibility as you do.
Tu quoque Avoiding having to engage a criticism by turning it back on the accuser.
The Fed's information is correct. It is not a good enough argument to simply resort to "do you believe the statistical source?" unless you can provide valid counter-evidence proving such.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry
In order for you to use intellect you'll have to posssess it first.
.....sigh the irony in this part just goes right over you're silly head.
Ad hominem Attacking your opponents character in an attempt to undermine their argument
That's an ad hominem. Irrelevant to this discussion.
Either you don't understand what ad hominem means, or you're having trouble with reading comprehension. I didn't attack you in any way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
Labor is a fraction of the overall cost of business, period. Whether it is the largest or not is irrelevant, because it is not the only costs of running a business.
Your implication was that it wasn't that significant of a cost. It is. You were wrong, and now that someone called you on it, you're trying to spin your way out. Typical, and exactly what I expected. You're very, very predictable, oy.
Either you don't understand what ad hominem means, or you're having trouble with reading comprehension. I didn't attack you in any way.
Your implication was that it wasn't that significant of a cost. It is. You were wrong, and now that someone called you on it, you're trying to spin your way out. Typical, and exactly what I expected. You're very, very predictable, oy.
No, don't misrepresent my claim.
Depending on the type of business, labor can make up a large or small fraction of expenses. Either way, it is still a fraction of expenses at best. Most businesses have some sort of real estate price attached to it, along with insurance, stock, equipment, utility & energy costs, etc.
Thinking a $3 increase in minimum wage will drastically increase the costs of business is just plain wrong. If that business is so penny pinched, they most likely had a poor business model to begin with.
First of all, I didn't, but even if I did, why would that be a problem? You've been attacking people throughout this thread, and you've certainly done what you just accused me of doing.
You're in a glass house, dude. Don't throw stones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
Thinking a $3 increase in minimum wage will drastically increase the costs of business is just plain wrong. If that business is so penny pinched, they most likely had a poor business model to begin with.
You're writing in this thread as if you're taking your first economics class this semester or something. Let us know when you're out in the real world, putting these theories into practice and running your own business. Then I'll consider not outright dismissing anything you have to say about what is or isn't involved.
Finally, the comment "If that business is so penny pinched, they most likely had a poor business model to begin with." is old, tired and just plain wrong. I've read that hundreds of times on this forum over the last few years, and every single person that's written it has had exactly ZERO experience with what they're claiming. I'm going to do you a solid here and let you know that by merely writing that, you're signaling to the world that you don't know a damned thing about business, and anyone who reads that and does know something about business will easily identify that. You're regurgitating union talking points, whether you know it or not, and they're no more true coming from your fingertips than anyone else's.
You're writing in this thread as if you're taking your first economics class this semester or something.
I don't believe he's ever been on a college campus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger
Finally, the comment "If that business is so penny pinched, they most likely had a poor business model to begin with." is old, tired and just plain wrong. I've read that hundreds of times on this forum over the last few years, and every single person that's written it has had exactly ZERO experience with what they're claiming.
I traced it back to an Obamabot talking point.
You can have the best business model in the world, but if government comes in and says you have pay for Jell-O® parties and shrimp on treadmill and buy beer and lotto tickets for people and subsidize their housing, the model is not going to work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth
A low level of inflation is considered positive by many if not most economists and it is the goal of the Federal Reserve.
Depending on the type of business, labor can make up a large or small fraction of expenses. Either way, it is still a fraction of expenses at best.
Quote:
How Food and Labor Costs are Calculated Food and labor costs are calculated as a percentage of the total volume of sales. If a restaurant does $20,000 per week and the total cost of food and beverages is $7,000 for that week, then the food cost is considered 35 percent. If, at the same restaurant, labor (including payroll taxes and benefits) equal $5,000 for the week, then the labor cost is 25 percent. Total prime costs are 60 percent in this example.
Misrepresentation If the misrepresentation occurs on purpose, then it is an example of lying. If the misrepresentation occurs during a debate in which there is misrepresentation of the opponent’s claim, then it would be the cause of a straw man fallacy.
Unless you were alive during the Great Depression, specifically from the period October 1928 through September 1942, you have never experienced Monetary Deflation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
Yes, minimum wage should be increased.
You have only subjective emotional beliefs to support your claim, not factual data.
Diane earns $14,200 annually from her minimum wage job.
Diane applies for HUD Section 8 housing assistance, and the government tells Diane she makes too much money to qualify.
Explain how increasing minimum wage will alter that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
You people just have no semblance of facts or statistics.
Uh-huh....you were ranting about labor costs being a "small fraction of expenses."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
Gas prices recently are lower than historical averages when adjusting for inflation.
What kind of Inflation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
You don't understand inflation and why it is good.
Inflation bad.
Monetary Inflation is bad. Cost-push Inflation is bad. Demand-pull Inflation is bad. Interest Inflation is bad. Wage Inflation is bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
You can only have inflation or deflation. Between the two, governments will always choose inflation. Get over the dollar losing "purchasing power" and start collective bargaining for why your wages aren't keeping pace.
Show us the math.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
Labor is a fraction of the overall cost of business, period. Whether it is the largest or not is irrelevant, because it is not the only costs of running a business.
You've already been burned on that and proven wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
There is no significant correlation between minimum wage and inflation.
No "significant correlation?"
You just admitted there was a correlation.
Your unconditional surrender is accepted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
Labor costs are a fraction of the overall cost of business.
You keep repeating that lie.
From which website did you get that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
Oil, energy, and real estate prices are the key determinants of inflation.
No, they are not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
These are caused by demographics. If there is a war and 3 billion people on this planet perish, there will be deflation.
Wrong. There will be massive Demand-pull Inflation, possibly running as high as 300% to 500% for some goods and services.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry
lmao you're posts are a wonderful idiotic goldmine. It's not that prices are too high it's just that wages haven't kept pace. Gee I wonder how that happened?
I know, it would be funny if it wasn't so damn sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSL_PWR
If you're going to work a minimum wage job then you have to live a minimum wage life.
Given that you do not understand or even try to understand just how devastating deflation is with multiple examples of it that you could easily Google and research I am not surprised you wonder how that happened.
Google and research? Did you ever find even one of the 17 US government websites?
Remember, Credit Suisse is not a US government website, in spite of your many protestations.
Falling prices are not "Deflation."
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
It happened by things like not adjusting minimum wage.
Show us mathematically.
When any good or service is being consumed to excess, the Laws of Economics drive up prices to halt or lessen the over-consumption of those goods and services. That is done through Demand-pull Inflation.
Increasing wages to match the increasing prices of goods and services that are being over-consumed does what?
It enables continued over-consumption of goods and services.
How do people benefit from over-consumption?
How are resources protected by over-consumption?
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
It happened by the simple fact that we need less and less people to actually DO things. And nothings being done to address the massively increasing wealth inequality.
There is no Wealth Inequality.
Donna spends $50/week on US Savings Bonds. Stupid Liberal spends $50/week on lotto tickets.
Fast-forward 30 years, Donna has a nice cushion for retirement, while Stupid Liberal has nothing.
You claim that is totally unfair, and we should punish Donna and rob her of the Wealth she accumulated because Stupid Liberal didn't want any Wealth.
Your position is so repugnant, even Lenin would gag and vomit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Forbes top 400 went from being worth 927 billion or so in 2007, to being worth 2.29 trillion last year. In the last 7 years has YOUR wealth tripled?
Misrepresentation If the misrepresentation occurs on purpose, then it is an example of lying. If the misrepresentation occurs during a debate in which there is misrepresentation of the opponent’s claim, then it would be the cause of a straw man fallacy.
You still haven't figured out the difference between Income and Wealth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Which has what exactly to do with this persons statement? Why don't you answer the question instead of posting this sort of nonsense?
The question was:
Would you eat the Moon, if it was made of barbequed spare-ribs?
How freaking absurd is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
The irony here.
Because sometimes its instructive to follow things out to their conclusion.
There's no irony, since the conclusion is impossible.
Labor Costs can never be $0.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
I could make a list for you as well, but I decline to participate in your pettiness and personal attacks.
Well, that's three reasons you should be canonized right there, and please, your definition of "personal attack" is anyone doesn't recommend your emotional rants for a Nobel Prize.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Maybe you should focus on attacking ideas, and not people?
Right, because the World will be a much better place if we all spend time pondering questions like, "Would you eat the Moon, if it was made of barbequed spare-ribs and Oprah Winfrey helped you?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
you do know that the majority of companies in the US sell only in the us right?
It's hard to sell globally when you cannot compete.
If you think your economy will thrive on Government, Healthcare & Hospitality, you're going to be in for a big surprise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Ahh the usual Mircea response, refuse to answer the question, and attack the messenger.
Pointing out that the messenger doesn't understand Deflation is not an "attack."
The only thing that undergoes Deflation is currency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry
That is what is happening now. The purchasing price of the dollar has gone down tremendously.
Stop government from inflating the money supply. Treat the cause and not the symptom. Otherwise you're just spinning your wheels.
The money supply isn't the problem.
Cost-push Inflation is caused by regulations levied by governments or non-governmental organizations.
The EPA introduces a regulation reducing Sulfur in gasoline to 15 ppm. The Sulfur Redux process is not free. The catalysts used -- like Titanium -- are very expensive and increases the price of gasoline. The Sulfur Redux process also takes time. You can refine 30,000 barrels per day with no Sulfur Redux; but to reduce to 100 ppm, drops production to 28,000 barrels per day, and then down to 30 ppm drops production down to 24,000 barrels per day, and then 15 ppm down to 22,000 barrel per day.
That reduces the gasoline supply, driving the price of gasoline higher, if Demand remains constant or increases.
Clearly, that is not a money supply issue, and the Federal Reserve is in no way responsible.
Voters are solely responsible.
Voters said they wanted to pay higher gasoline prices, and now that gasoline prices have increased, voters are angry because they cannot afford to pay the higher gasoline prices.
The solution is not to increase wages, rather the solution is for voters to grow a spine and tell their elected officials to reign in the government bureaucracies that create unnecessary regulations that drive up prices.
An example of a non-governmental agency creating Cost-push Inflation would be the American Hospital Association.
Demand-pull Inflation is caused by over-consumption.
Clearly, that is not a money supply issue, and the Federal Reserve is in no way responsible.
Using corn-based ethanol for fuel is grossly inefficient. Corn is best used for food consumption. Because corn is being used for non-food purposes instead of food purposes, there is a shortage of corn. Since Demand remains the same or increases, all things related to corn --- like food prices -- rise.
Voters told their government to pull corn from the Food Market and waste it on Ethanol, causing the food prices to rise. Increasing wages is stupid. Voters can either reduce their Ethanol consumption, reduce their Food consumption (or both); or voters need to start farming to increase the amount of corn grown in the US to off-set Demand.
Interest Inflation artificially inflates the prices of those things impacted by interest rates. Effectively, it is a form of Monetary Inflation, but it is limited to specific sectors of the economy. The Federal Reserve is in no way responsible for inflating college tuition prices, but the government is through its policies. The Federal Reserve is partially responsible for a small amount of the artificial inflation of housing prices. The government is responsible for the largest part of artificially inflating housing prices through its polices.
Wage Inflation....well, that's what this thread is about, but the Federal Reserve is in no way responsible.
Deflation can only occur if --and only if -- the value of goods and services produced exceeds the money supply.
"Housing is deflating."
No, wrong. Deflation is when something is less than its real value. Declining, decreasing or dropping prices is not proof of Deflation.
Declining wages are not proof of Deflation, either.
Systematically....
You do know the sticker shock doesn't suddenly stop occurring right? That inflation and minimum wage have nothing to do with one another?
Imagine if you hadn't gotten those raises and the sticker shock as you say, just kept occurring. Thats the alternative to raising minimum wage.
You have a good point, it's just in my experience, for what it's worth, I see "the buck" being passed along to the consumers very shortly after the "raise" kicks in. Whether it's related, or whether businesses use it as an excuse, I've never noticed such a significant jump in prices at any other time, (at least here in California where I live) even if prices in general do creep up over time.
This is the reason I have a "meh" reaction when the minimum wage goes up. I'm old and jaded now.
First of all, I didn't, but even if I did, why would that be a problem? You've been attacking people throughout this thread, and you've certainly done what you just accused me of doing.
You're in a glass house, dude. Don't throw stones.
You're writing in this thread as if you're taking your first economics class this semester or something. Let us know when you're out in the real world, putting these theories into practice and running your own business. Then I'll consider not outright dismissing anything you have to say about what is or isn't involved.
Finally, the comment "If that business is so penny pinched, they most likely had a poor business model to begin with." is old, tired and just plain wrong. I've read that hundreds of times on this forum over the last few years, and every single person that's written it has had exactly ZERO experience with what they're claiming. I'm going to do you a solid here and let you know that by merely writing that, you're signaling to the world that you don't know a damned thing about business, and anyone who reads that and does know something about business will easily identify that. You're regurgitating union talking points, whether you know it or not, and they're no more true coming from your fingertips than anyone else's.
Are you using more anecdotes again?
If a business has to pay starvation wages to make a profit, they don't have a good business model. It is pretty cut and dry.
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