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Old 01-22-2015, 06:23 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,468,904 times
Reputation: 4799

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
I think the democratic processes are being damaged by this decision. Our election processes are also being compromised. A 'seat in government' sold to the highest bidder like a seat on the NYSE? Government seats are presently a highly sought-after commodity as they confer the ability to direct policy. Should the ability to direct policies which effect the general welfare of a governments' constituents be sold to the highest bidder?

Are we, in actuality, damaging the conditions necessary for a representative republic?

Personally, I think the decision has done more harm than good.

As for the Supreme Courts' response?

Obama: Citizens United Caused ‘Real Harm’ to U.S. Democracy - Law Blog - WSJ

It’s probably not a good idea to underestimate the power of denial.
It's always been that way but before it was unions and organized crime owning the politicians.

Does anyone need a reminder of what party unions and organized crime wanted in power?
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Old 01-22-2015, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Fredericktown,Ohio
7,168 posts, read 5,366,904 times
Reputation: 2922
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexusNexus View Post
He's absolutely right. It was an atrocious decision by the right-wing corrupted Supreme Court, and it undermines our democracy. How in the world can you Republicans say this is how this country should work?


Obama: Citizens United Caused ‘Real Harm’ to U.S. Democracy - Law Blog - WSJ



Did Obama undermine democracy when he signed the latest budget deal ? Well lets see :





The bill would allow wealthy individuals and PACs to increase the amount they contribute to party committees. Because the contribution limits are already higher for individuals than PACs, the changes further increase the influence of wealthy donors in the political process. The bill creates seven new accounts for each party which can receive contributions from PACs and individuals. As an example, a current contributor to the three Democratic committees (DNC, DCCC, DSCC) is able to give a combined total of $97,200 each year. Under the bill, a wealthy contributor will be able to give a total of $324,000 combined each year. A spouse could make the same contribution. This change is likely to advantage Republican Party fundraising. [/SIZE]
http://www.afscme.org/root/body/Hous...nding-Bill.pdf[/SIZE]

Thanks to Obama and {R}s the wealthy and corporations can give a lot more money to one of the pathetic parties committees. I would say this is in the same line as united citizen and Obama and yourself are huge hypocrites.
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:19 AM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,226,860 times
Reputation: 12102
More flame wars started by the paid bot.
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:26 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,634,918 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
More flame wars started by the paid bot.
When Lexus starts a thread, they rarely return.
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:36 AM
 
7,359 posts, read 5,464,526 times
Reputation: 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
I think the democratic processes are being damaged by this decision. Our election processes are also being compromised. A 'seat in government' sold to the highest bidder like a seat on the NYSE? Government seats are presently a highly sought-after commodity as they confer the ability to direct policy. Should the ability to direct policies which effect the general welfare of a governments' constituents be sold to the highest bidder?

Are we, in actuality, damaging the conditions necessary for a representative republic?

Personally, I think the decision has done more harm than good.

As for the Supreme Courts' response?

Obama: Citizens United Caused ‘Real Harm’ to U.S. Democracy - Law Blog - WSJ

It’s probably not a good idea to underestimate the power of denial.
We have this thing called voting. That's how we decide who gets a seat in government. We don't sell them. No matter how much someone spends on advertising, there is no force involved. You are still free to vote for whatever candidate you like. Nothing is being bought or sold other than advertisements.

Given that fact, what's under question here is the ability of private citizens to use their money to buy advertising to broadcast their opinions. If you limit that, you are limiting free speech.

If I want to spend my own money to advertise my support of a particular candidate, it should not be up to you to tell me I can't do it. It's my money and it's a free country.
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:54 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,634,918 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
We have this thing called voting. That's how we decide who gets a seat in government. We don't sell them. No matter how much someone spends on advertising, there is no force involved. You are still free to vote for whatever candidate you like. Nothing is being bought or sold other than advertisements.

Given that fact, what's under question here is the ability of private citizens to use their money to buy advertising to broadcast their opinions. If you limit that, you are limiting free speech.

If I want to spend my own money to advertise my support of a particular candidate, it should not be up to you to tell me I can't do it. It's my money and it's a free country.


Sometimes you can clearly see who is out to buy a seat at the table.
A lot of times the media will not let you see that.

Some are smart enough to see through the fog the media casts and then you have those that are easily Grubered.


The internet has become so burdensome, for the gatekeepers.
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,870 posts, read 26,514,597 times
Reputation: 25773
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBeard View Post
I believe your question misses the mark though is well taken. Equating news organizations, whether it is Fox News, NYT, CBS, MSNBC, as political enterprises are really quite the stretch but are not the issue. In the Citizens United context, it is not a question whether the Koch Inc., Apple, Haliburton, etc. are "political enterprises" but whether these corporations or any individual should be permitted to spend unlimited funds in US elections or whether there should be caps on spending.

I would also add that there can be a distinction made between the press and the non-press and that the attempt to make that line ambiguous is in many way disingenuous. Does anyone really dispute the NYT, MSNBC, FOX News are not part of the press and entitled to press freedom? However, given that the press like many other industries are being consolidated by larger multinationals the line is being blurred. But ironically it all comes around to money does it not? Mergers approved regardless the impact on antitrust laws or competition because these multinationals have a larger role to play in financing and bankrolling candidates.
I don't see an issue with "freedom of the press", except in terms of campaign/election oriented political commentary. The MSM is in a unique situation to have virtually unlimited access to an unlimited audience, and very little competition. Historically there has been very little to counter the often one-sided slant of the MSM. Even today, even with Citizen's United, it's still very biased in favor of the MSM. They can and do flood the airwaves with both news programming and commentary designed to manipulate the public. Even worse, they do so with "regular" programming as well. I don't think anyone will even begin to argue that there is manipulation going on with many dramas and sitcoms. CU gives other individuals and groups at least a faint chance to have their voices heard.

Even fewer will bother to argue that a rookie senator with an undistinguished career and no relevant work experience ending up in the White House was anything other than a media creation. As a whole, the American public isn't that dumb. But with enough face time and manipulation by the MSM, anything is possible. As they say, tell the same lie over and over and sooner or later someone will start to believe it.
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:15 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,971,219 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexusNexus View Post
He's absolutely right. It was an atrocious decision by the right-wing corrupted Supreme Court, and it undermines our democracy. How in the world can you Republicans say this is how this country should work?

Obama: Citizens United Caused ‘Real Harm’ to U.S. Democracy - Law Blog - WSJ
Absolutely wrong.

CU was a leap forward in recognizing the inherent rights of the individual.

The straw man those who want government speech control trot out is false.
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:15 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,893 posts, read 18,447,268 times
Reputation: 6465
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
Weird....obama was the biggest benefactor of "citizens united".....if the man-child had any character at all, he would have turned down the millions of dollars in campaign funds from these evil corporations.

But character is not something that obama will be remembered for.

What! you really think Obama would turn away Money no matter where it comes from. Obama is all talk, walks a good walk, talks a good talk, things that pertain to other people don't pertain to him.
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:19 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
Citizen United had nothing to do with corporations or campaign contributions. Obama and LexusNexus both know this but simply can't quit showing off their refusal to join reality.
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