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Pretty hard to blame a dead three year old for shooting himself in the face.....
In my opinion, blaming the parent, who negligently stored the firearm where a kid could access it, IS blaming the person who misused the firearm, or rather, negligently stored it.
Again, people need to know their children. Speaking of Sandy Hook, Nancy Lanza KNEW her son was a nutcase, and should have never allowed him access to firearms.
FWIW - She had her guns locked up. Her son killed her for the keys. She should have had the guns in the open and her son locked up.
Keeping loaded gun where a child can get them is just plain stupid. Unloading a gun before cleaning and storing it is one of the basic rules of owning one of the things. Trying to outlaw stupidity is even more futile than outlawing guns.
I was the neighborhood rat exterminator when I was 9 years old. I was shown how to safely use guns before that. I had free access to the family guns anytime I wanted to use them.
You're only posting part of the language. Here's the Full story:
(1) A person who stores or leaves a firearm in a location where the person knows, or reasonably should know, that a child is likely to gain access:
(a) Is guilty of child endangerment due to unsafe storage of a firearm in the first degree IF a child obtains access and possession of the firearm and the child causes personal injury or death with the firearm; or
(b) Is guilty of child endangerment due to unsafe storage of a firearm in the second degree IF a child obtains access and possession of the firearm and the child:
(i) Causes the firearm to discharge;
(ii) Exhibits the firearm in a public place or in an angry, threatening, or careless manner; or
(iii) Uses the firearm in the commission of a crime.
( emphasis mine )
You must pay close attention to the placement of the word "IF".... This law would only kick in "if" the child's access to the firearm causes harm.
The Bill doesn't mandate how or where a firearm must be stored, and you are only guilty of an offense IF your chosen method of storage results in a child using the firearm in an unlawful way.... that's it. In other words, a child having access to the firearm is not, in and of itself, a violation of this law. It only becomes a violation IF the child accesses it AND uses it in an unlawful manner.
1(b)(ii) and 1(b)(iii) could basically resolve to the child obtains access and possession of the firearm.
look at 1(b)(ii) (separated at ors for clarity)
Exhibits the firearm in a public place or
in an angry, threatening or
careless manner
ok so if a child exhibits the firearm in a public place 1(b) applies. If a child exhibits the firearm in an angry or threatening manner 1(b) applies. If the child exhibits the firearm in a careless manner 1(b) applies.
What defines, angry or threatening manner?
What defines careless manner?
I can easily argue that any child in possession of a firearm that I can see is exhibiting the firearm in a careless manner, were they being careful I would not see it.
1(b)(iii) Uses the firearm in the commission of a crime, for example carrying the firearm in a backpack, or concealed somewhere. Under RCW 9.41.040 it is a crime for anyone under the age of 18 to be in possession of a handgun except (from RCW 9.41.042 (7))
Quote:
On real property under the control of his or her parent, other relative, or legal guardian and who has the permission of the parent or legal guardian to possess a firearm;
Police Officer: Mr Smith, your son was seen in possession of your handgun, did you give him permission to have it?
Mr Smith: No.
Since the law states possession, we must assume that it means both actual and constructive possession.
Thank you 1(b)(iii) now applies, your child used the firearm in the commission of a crime, that crime being illegal possession of a handgun by a minor.
So while the law as written may not place requirements on storage of firearms, the law as enacted may well require storage requirements on firearms by people who have minors living at their address, certainly that law could be used to prosecute any gun owner, who lives with minors, and does not securely store their handguns (for example they keep it on a bedside table while sleeping). Constructive possession is very difficult to prevent without locking up firearms, of course one of the issues that caused Heller to take DC to the SCOTUS was that there were explicit storage requirements placed on firearms owners in their own home, this does not have explicit storage requirements, but the implications are not benign.
Much like the "Gun Free Zone Act" was initially ruled unconstitutional (US V. Lopez) since the government had no basis to prohibit handguns from schools, the act was "reworded" so that it was illegal to possess any handgun that had moved in or that otherwise effects interstate commerce, so as to provide basis for the actual effect of the law.
Rep. Kagi, introduced a Bill that deals with safe storage of firearms. Worthy of note, this Bill does NOT mandate where or how a firearm can be stored, and thus doesn't violate the Constitution, per the supreme court's ruling on storage in Heller vs. DC.. All it does is strengthen and more clearly define the penalties for people who store firearms in such a way that a child under 18 years old can gain unauthorized access. In other words, it gives more incentive to gun owners to store their firearm in a safe and secure manner. You, as a gun owner, could store your firearm loaded, on the kitchen table if you were so inclined, but if a child gains unauthorized access to it and discharges it, harms themselves or others, uses it in a crime, brandishes it in public, etc. you will be held legally accountable. Also worthy of note, the bill has many reasonable and generous exemptions, and also allows for prosecutorial discretion in pursuing charges. If you do store your gun in a safe, or have a trigger lock on it, you are automatically exempt.
I have been suggesting this exact type of bill for a long time now. I have to say I was pretty impressed when I read this, as I have always thought that advocates of safe storage laws completely miss the point when they push for laws that mandate guns be stored in safes. Let gun owners store our guns however we like, but have clear, concise laws on the books that hold us responsible when our chosen method of storage results in unlawful access to an unauthorized person.
In the article I read, it said that even gun Rights advocates had a hand in crafting this Bill. Finally, a proposal that is actually worthy of the term "common-sense gun law".... I think this is something that we can all agree on, and should be a model for other states. Try as I might, I can find no reason whatsoever to oppose this. Text of the Bill below: It's a short, clean bill.
There is no such thing as a liberal libertarian. It is an oxymoron. Liberal libertarians are just liberals who try to take the libertarian name in order to make themselves look less like the nanny state control freaks that all liberals, including yourself, are. When one looks at a list of what these so-called liberal libertarians believe it's like 90% straight down the line politically correct progressive garbage, plus a couple points scattered in that are just mild surface level libertarian stuff. It's like someone who wants public sector unions, gun control, state funded abortion, amnesty, and high capital gains taxes but because they also favor a strong military they somehow think they're conservative. If you even slightly scratch the surface of a liberal libertarian you will find a standard progressive underneath.
Then I guess you don't know much about the people in the Northwest based on this post. And if you think I am a "nanny state control freak" then you have no idea who I am because that description doesn't fit me at all. But you are welcome to assume anything you want in life, just remember your assumptions don't make you right.
Rep. Kagi, introduced a Bill that deals with safe storage of firearms. Worthy of note, this Bill does NOT mandate where or how a firearm can be stored, and thus doesn't violate the Constitution, per the supreme court's ruling on storage in Heller vs. DC.. All it does is strengthen and more clearly define the penalties for people who store firearms in such a way that a child under 18 years old can gain unauthorized access. In other words, it gives more incentive to gun owners to store their firearm in a safe and secure manner. You, as a gun owner, could store your firearm loaded, on the kitchen table if you were so inclined, but if a child gains unauthorized access to it and discharges it, harms themselves or others, uses it in a crime, brandishes it in public, etc. you will be held legally accountable. Also worthy of note, the bill has many reasonable and generous exemptions, and also allows for prosecutorial discretion in pursuing charges. If you do store your gun in a safe, or have a trigger lock on it, you are automatically exempt.
I have been suggesting this exact type of bill for a long time now. I have to say I was pretty impressed when I read this, as I have always thought that advocates of safe storage laws completely miss the point when they push for laws that mandate guns be stored in safes. Let gun owners store our guns however we like, but have clear, concise laws on the books that hold us responsible when our chosen method of storage results in unlawful access to an unauthorized person.
In the article I read, it said that even gun Rights advocates had a hand in crafting this Bill. Finally, a proposal that is actually worthy of the term "common-sense gun law".... I think this is something that we can all agree on, and should be a model for other states. Try as I might, I can find no reason whatsoever to oppose this. Text of the Bill below: It's a short, clean bill.
"The Blaze reported this week that the 11-year-old girl was home alone in the afternoon, when a man pulled into the driveway of the Lapeer County, Michigan, residence and started knocking on all the doors to see if anyone was home. When no one answered, the suspect forced his way into the residence, the Lapeer County Sheriff’s Department said. Realizing she was in danger, the girl fled to a closet inside a bedroom and armed herself with a shotgun.[LEFT]
Read more: http://www.ammoland.com/2015/02/elev...#ixzz3RStY7ni3
The firearm is secured in a locked box, gun safe, other secure locked storage space, or secured with a lock or any device that prevents the firearm from discharging;
This has been discussed MANY time.
You live in a 1 story house.
It is 3 Am and you hear your door being breaking into.
It is dark.
You DON'T date turn on a light and let the intruder know you are home and awake.
How long will it take you to find the keys, in the dark?
How long will it take you find your gun, in the dark?
How long will it take yo to find the RIGHT key for the "locked box", in the dark?
How long will it take you to find the ammo, in the dark?
How long will it take you to load the gun, in the dark?
How long will it take you to unlock, after you find the correct key, and remove the trigger lock, in the dark?
While doing all of the above you are shaking like leaf and might drop something.
And the bottom line, how long does it take the intruder to find you?
Many of the things anti-gunners never consider.
"I have been suggesting this exact type of bill for a long time now. I have to say I was pretty impressed when I read this".
And I didn't go through the entire thing.
Are you STILL impressed?
Being this a lawyer written bill, can I sue the state if my house is broken into and because of the law I have my gun in a "locked box" and couldn't get to it in time and one of my family is harmed?
Last edited by Quick Enough; 02-11-2015 at 12:09 PM..
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