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"The Blaze reported this week that the 11-year-old girl was home alone in the afternoon, when a man pulled into the driveway of the Lapeer County, Michigan, residence and started knocking on all the doors to see if anyone was home. When no one answered, the suspect forced his way into the residence, the Lapeer County Sheriff’s Department said. Realizing she was in danger, the girl fled to a closet inside a bedroom and armed herself with a shotgun.[left]
Read more: Eleven-Year-Old Girl Thwarts Home Invasion
The firearm is secured in a locked box, gun safe, other secure locked storage space, or secured with a lock or any device that prevents the firearm from discharging;
This has been discussed MANY time.
You live in a 1 story house.
It is 3 Am and you hear your door being breaking into.
It is dark.
You DON'T date turn on a light and let the intruder know you are home and awake.
How long will it take you to find the keys, in the dark?
How long will it take you find your gun, in the dark?
How long will it take yo to find the RIGHT key for the "locked box", in the dark?
How long will it take you to find the ammo, in the dark?
How long will it take you to load the gun, in the dark?
How long will it take you to unlock, after you find the correct key, and remove the trigger lock, in the dark?
While doing all of the above you are shaking like leaf and might drop something.
And the bottom line, how long does it take the intruder to find you?
Many of the things anti-gunners never consider.
"I have been suggesting this exact type of bill for a long time now. I have to say I was pretty impressed when I read this".
And I didn't go through the entire thing.
Are you STILL impressed?
Being this a lawyer written bill, can I sue the state if my house is broken into and because of the law I have my gun in a "locked box" and couldn't get to it in time and one of my family is harmed?
The definition of child is quite clear.
Those questions sound like you might need to sleep with a gun under your pillow if you are that concerned about intruders.
Last year they passed the B/C bill. Now they are an a roll and desire to pass another bill. When this passes they will present another bill, and another, and another. Where does is end?... this is the proverbial "slippery slope".
The kicker is.... none of these will prevent 1 death. It's already a crime to allow minors unsupervised access to firearms.
When a child gets a hold of a gun and kills themselves or another.... they never prosecute. They never hold the parents liable because they have already suffered enough with the loss of life.
www.katu.com/news/...of-armed-robberies-in-SE-Portland-287021231.html
Dec 29, 2014 · Teens arrested for string of armed robberies in SE Portland. ... Two teenagers face attempted aggravated murder and multiple robbery charges after Portland ...
A silly question I now but I have to ask.
What do you think would/could have happened to the 11 year old girl IF she HADN'T HAD that shotgun?
If she was YOUR daughter, would you like to take that gamble?
(1) A person who stores or leaves a firearm in a location where the person knows, or reasonably should know, that a child is likely to gain access:
(a) Is guilty of child endangerment due to unsafe storage of a firearm in the first degree IF a child obtains access and possession of the firearm and the child causes personal injury or death with the firearm; or
(b) Is guilty of child endangerment due to unsafe storage of a firearm in the second degree IF a child obtains access and possession of the firearm and the child:
(i) Causes the firearm to discharge;
(ii) Exhibits the firearm in a public place or in an angry, threatening, or careless manner; or
(iii) Uses the firearm in the commission of a crime.
Not a resident of WA, so I don't have a dog in this hunt and I have not read the entire bill.
Based on the excerpt above I would have a couple concerns:
1. What if the minor gains access by breaking & entering? For example, my wife and I live alone, have no children, have no friends with children, and are away from our home. A minor breaks into the home and steals a firearm. Are we liable in that instance? Personally, we always keep our firearms under lock & key unless we are doing something with them, but I'm not sure someone should become guilty of a crime that is the result of someone breaking & entering.
2. I don't have kids, but I can imagine having a 16 or 17 year old child who has been trained with firearms since an early age who I would trust implicitly to have access to my firearms. If he gains access am I now guilty of a crime?
Not a resident of WA, so I don't have a dog in this hunt and I have not read the entire bill.
Based on the excerpt above I would have a couple concerns:
1. What if the minor gains access by breaking & entering? For example, my wife and I live alone, have no children, have no friends with children, and are away from our home. A minor breaks into the home and steals a firearm. Are we liable in that instance? Personally, we always keep our firearms under lock & key unless we are doing something with them, but I'm not sure someone should become guilty of a crime that is the result of someone breaking & entering.
2. I don't have kids, but I can imagine having a 16 or 17 year old child who has been trained with firearms since an early age who I would trust implicitly to have access to my firearms. If he gains access am I now guilty of a crime?
Dave
1. It seems to me that if you lock your home, then your guns are already under lock and key to burglars, so you would not be liable.
2. You would not be guilty if your 16 or 17 year old does nothing negligent or illegal.
I must have overlooked it in the bill. Can you point it out to me?
Your comment tells me you don't know very much about armed intruders.
I don't know where you live, and don't really care but, there ARE incidents of armed intruders EVERY DAY in the U.S. even in some of the nicest places.
A silly question I now but I have to ask.
What do you think would/could have happened to the 11 year old girl IF she HADN'T HAD that shotgun?
If she was YOUR daughter, would you like to take that gamble?
Did you need the bill to explain to you what a child is? That seems absurd.
Yes, I am sure there is plenty where that came from to help fuel anyone's paranoia. If one is so scared of intruders, then sleep with a gun under your bed and hope your children don't spook you in the middle of the night getting up to go to the bathroom. I can find stories about that too if you like.
Did you need the bill to explain to you what a child is? That seems absurd.
Yes, I am sure there is plenty where that came from to help fuel anyone's paranoia. If one is so scared of intruders, then sleep with a gun under your bed and hope your children don't spook you in the middle of the night getting up to go to the bathroom. I can find stories about that too if you like.
Of course it seems absurd to you because you don't look past your nose.
EVERY state can have it's OWN legal definition of "child"
So, AGAIN, should that 11 year old CHILD have had access to that shotgun?
And by the way I added something just for you in my post #33
"that a child is likely to gain access"
define "child"
A "child" as defined by this Bill, is anyone under the age of 18 years old.
"""(5) For the purposes of this section, "child" means a person under the age of eighteen years"""
....and keep in mind that mere possession by a child would not be a violation of this law. It only becomes a violation "IF" the child uses the gun to harm themselves, someone else, or commit a crime.
Quote:
"The Blaze reported this week that the 11-year-old girl was
home alone in the afternoon, when a man pulled into the driveway of the Lapeer
County, Michigan, residence and started knocking on all the doors to see if
anyone was home. When no one answered, the suspect forced his way into the
residence, the Lapeer County Sheriff’s Department said. Realizing she
was in danger, the girl fled to a closet inside a bedroom and armed herself with
a shotgun.
Incidents like this would be explicitly exempt from this law.....
"""(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply if:
(d) The child obtains, or obtains and discharges, the firearm in a lawful act of self-defense;"""
Very common-sense stuff here.
Quote:
The firearm is secured in a locked box, gun safe, other secure locked
storage space, or secured with a lock or any device that prevents the firearm
from discharging;
This has been discussed MANY time.
You live in a 1 story house.
It is 3 Am and you hear your door being breaking into.
It is dark.
You DON'T date turn on a light and let the intruder know you are home and
awake.
How long will it take you to find the keys, in the dark?
How long will it take you find your gun, in the dark?
How long will it take yo to find the RIGHT key for the "locked box", in the
dark?
How long will it take you to find the ammo, in the dark?
How long will it take you to load the gun, in the dark?
How long will it take you to unlock, after you find the correct key, and
remove the trigger lock, in the dark?
While doing all of the above you are shaking like leaf and might drop
something.
And the bottom line, how long does it take the intruder to find you?
Many of the things anti-gunners never consider.
This situation you describe was considered in this Bill, and that's why it doesn't mandate how or where you store your firearm.
"""(6) Nothing in this section mandates how or where a firearm must be stored."""
None of this applies, as you are still free store your firearm in any manner you choose. You want to keep it loaded, by your bedside? That's fine. You are only in violation of this law IF a child gains unauthorized access to it, AND uses it in a crime, or to harm themselves.
Quote:
"I have been suggesting this exact type of bill for a long time now. I have
to say I was pretty impressed when I read this".
And I didn't go through the entire thing.
Are you STILL impressed?
Perhaps you should go through the entire thing ( please read the Bill, otherwise, you have no idea what you are criticizing.) Yes, I am still very impressed with this Bill, as it doesn't dictate to anyone how or where to store their firearms, nor does it ban possession of a firearm to a child for legitimate purposes. I wouldn't support it if it did. Someone really took the time to think this out before they wrote this Bill.
Quote:
Being this a lawyer written bill, can I sue the state if my house is
broken into and because of the law I have my gun in a "locked box" and couldn't
get to it in time and one of my family is harmed?
Again, if you keep your firearm in a locked box and can't get to it in time, that's on you, because this Bill doesn't tell you that you have to keep it in a locked box. READ THE BILL....!!!!
Try as you might, there is absolutely no reason to oppose this Bill's passage, even from the strictest of pro-gun standpoints.
Last edited by WhipperSnapper 88; 02-11-2015 at 05:25 PM..
Not a resident of WA, so I don't have a dog in this
hunt and I have not read the entire bill.
Based on the excerpt above I would have a couple concerns:
1. What if the minor gains access by breaking & entering? For example,
my wife and I live alone, have no children, have no friends with children, and
are away from our home. A minor breaks into the home and steals a firearm. Are
we liable in that instance? Personally, we always keep our firearms under lock
& key unless we are doing something with them, but I'm not sure someone
should become guilty of a crime that is the result of someone breaking &
entering.
If someone under the age of 18 broke in to your home and stole your firearm, no matter how it's kept, you would be exempt.
"""(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply if:
(c) The child's access to the firearm was obtained as a result of an unlawful entry;"""
Quote:
2. I don't have kids, but I can imagine having a 16 or 17 year old child who
has been trained with firearms since an early age who I would trust implicitly
to have access to my firearms. If he gains access am I now guilty of a crime?
No. You are only guilty of a crime if your child uses the gun to harm themselves, others, or to commit a crime.
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