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At 3:12 or so in video, he's asked if he can do lettering (the request for a picture is off the table at that time) and the baker first says yeah yeah, then says "no" to question "Can you do that?" (re: custom wording "Ben Loves Stephen Forever" and "Groom and Groom"). You'll also note that he kind of turns his head like, "Naw, I don't want to" (his expression). And also says, "I don't want that" in response to the obviously gay wedding cake (earlier in the video).
It has to take some tortured "what ifs" to interpret all of that to mean that this bakery never does any lettering at all, when that must be one of the mainstays of bakeries doing custom work. Wording! Text! "Happy Birthday Sally" on a birthday cake and so forth. And it also takes some tortured selective listening to assume that the baker is actually consenting to "Groom and Groom" when right after saying "yeah yeah" a few times he finalizes with "no" after the "customer" says, "Can you do that?"
So are you suggesting that this particular bakery is incapable of doing custom wording, or never does it for anybody, ever? Because the baker doesn't want to do the wording. He's saying no to that.
He said yes, yes, yes, to the writing, and no when the guy said and a picture of our hands holding.
First he says "so groom and groom you know two grooms" The baker says yeah @3:05
then it cuts to a different bakery
Then back to the other bakery "you don't need a machine to write on it" 3:13
"You can write Ben loves Steven forever" Baker says yeah
"and groom and groom" and the baker says "on this one no". then another quick cut.
Why? is the cake too small to fit the words? We never hear what size or shape the cake is. IT may have been a multi tiered cake with very little writing space on top.
Come back when the entire video can be seen unedited. It is something that editors do to show the story they want told called "manipulative editing". It is seen in reality TV all the time to show what the producers want seen. They show someone saying "I hate her", but they clip out the word "outfit". Now it appears that Sally hates Jane, but in fact she hates her clothes. Manipulative Editing - TV Tropes
I have seen interviews between real people and cartoon characters that were created by editing the cartoon shows dialogue. This is not something new, the news does it, print media does it, and vloggers do it.
Check out Israel's laws. FYI: Homosexuals cannot get married in Israel.
I would love to see how Orthodox Jewish bakeries in the U.S. would respond to people asking for a cake, in celebration of "gay marriage."
The truth is, all religions that are grounded in monotheism have strict rules concerning homosexuality. Judaism, Christianity and Islam do not accept nor condone the idea of homosexuality because it is considered a sin. There are of course many sins, but I think religious business owners simply do not want to explicitly partake in acknowledging what they find sinful. For example, how many religious bakers would be willing to bake a cake with script that congratulates a woman or man for partaking in adultery, prostitution, or being a successful thief? My guess is, it would be met with the same resistance as homosexual marriage.
But at the end of the day, this is a non "issue" in the U.S., because there's a plethora of non religious bakeries that will gladly write whatever the customer requests on wedding cakes...
Since most Orthodox bakeries are in Orthodox communities the chances of that happening are slim. They also don't concern themselves with the actions of non jews. In their mind your sin is your own.
I just watched the video associated with the article posted. This guy has a good and funny sense of humor in the way he presents the issue.
The elephant in the burka almost made me spew coffee on the computer.
The fact is that because Christians outnumber Muslims in American by a factor of about 90 to 1, proprietors are vastly more likely to be Christian than Muslim and, consequently, we fully expect there to be vastly more discriminating Christians than Muslims, in the same way that few such proprietors will be Jewish (because, again, Christians vastly outnumber Christians in the United States).
Do you understand simple logic and basic math?
Oh, and as for your BS that it never happens, it does, and it is indeed brought to light by those who advocate against anti-LGBT discrimination. Maybe you've never heard of googling - more likely, you just aren't interested in checking your assumptions against something called reality.
Good post, the treasonous conservative media simply ignores the fact that the people against so-called Christian bakers refusing to sell gay people stupid cakes, are also against so-called Muslims doing the same thing, because the brainwashed conservative morons that consume this garbage want to believe that this is accurate, because they love pretending to be victims.
Similar arguments were made about black people wanting to eat at white only lunch counters. They were called trouble makers and worse.
The difference is blacks were discriminated in All businesses and the government sanctioned it. Gays can go get to a restaurant and order a meal in sit in the same place as the rest of us.
He said yes, yes, yes, to the writing, and no when the guy said and a picture of our hands holding.
First he says "so groom and groom you know two grooms" The baker says yeah @3:05
then it cuts to a different bakery
Then back to the other bakery "you don't need a machine to write on it" 3:13
"You can write Ben loves Steven forever" Baker says yeah
"and groom and groom" and the baker says "on this one no". then another quick cut.
No, he doesn't.
The customer is saying "Ben loves Steven," and then "Groom and Groom" and the baker is sort of repeating yeah yeah yeah, and then when the customer says, "you can do that," the baker says, "No."
He's certainly not consenting to "Groom and Groom" since that was the last suggested phrase the customer asked before the baker says "No".
You're just grasping at straws. Anyone looking at the video can see that the baker is saying "yeah yeah yeah" the way a lot of us say "yeah yeah yeah" to something in the middle of a conversation, but when it comes to actually agreeing or committing, the baker says, "No."
Enough of that exchange in the video is included to see that he's not agreeing to any of the suggested text.
But you keep on telling yourself that he was agreeing to some of it, with his repeated yeah yeah yeahs, and you ignore the definitive no at the end.
And you keep on telling yourself that no Muslim bakery has ever refused a gay wedding, ever, and that's the only reason why no one has made a social media example of them. Because no Muslim bakery, EVER, would ever refuse to bake for a gay wedding.
The customer is saying "Ben loves Steven," and then "Groom and Groom" and the baker is sort of repeating yeah yeah yeah, and then when the customer says, "you can do that," the baker says, "No."
He's certainly not consenting to "Groom and Groom" since that was the last suggested phrase the customer asked before the baker says "No".
You're just grasping at straws. Anyone looking at the video can see that the baker is saying "yeah yeah yeah" the way a lot of us say "yeah yeah yeah" to something in the middle of a conversation, but when it comes to actually agreeing or committing, the baker says, "No."
Enough of that exchange in the video is included to see that he's not agreeing to any of the suggested text.
But you keep on telling yourself that he was agreeing to some of it, with his repeated yeah yeah yeahs, and you ignore the definitive no at the end.
And you keep on telling yourself that no Muslim bakery has ever refused a gay wedding, ever, and that's the only reason why no one has made a social media example of them. Because no Muslim bakery, EVER, would ever refuse to bake for a gay wedding.
Please show me where I have ever claimed that no Muslim bakery has ever refused a gay person.
What I said is that I do not trust THIS video, because it is so heavily edited. If I saw the unedited videos and saw everything that happened then I could agree or disagree with what is being portrayed.
Please show me where I have ever claimed that no Muslim bakery has ever refused a gay person.
So if you don't doubt that a Muslim bakery has refused a gay person, would you join in an intense social media campaign against the next Muslim bakery that refuses a gay person? How many people do you think would initiate such a campaign, with the same amount of passion and intensity that was directed at this Christian pizzeria (or the other Christian bakeries)?
Quote:
What I said is that I do not trust THIS video, because it is so heavily edited. If I saw the unedited videos and saw everything that happened then I could agree or disagree with what is being portrayed.
I think it was pretty clear that they were refusing, and I also am fairly confident that the people who did the hidden camera had plenty of ammunition to bolster their case. But I don't think they want to (or should) start a campaign against the bakeries, nor was this their intention. Nor would I want them to do that.
The point of the hidden camera video was to show that Muslim bakeries are likely going to refuse to do work for a gay wedding, and when they do, we hear crickets from social media.
That, I think, is very accurate. But somehow I anticipate that many social media activists won't admit that they are selective in their outrage.
Interestingly, I think the story of the gov. making the Muslim taxi drivers accept dogs and alcohol bolsters the case against bakers who refuse to do gay wedding cakes. But the difference with the Muslim taxi drivers is, that the story wasn't about them refusing gay folks, so the social media activists weren't trying to ruin them (nor do I think they would regardless). Unless you have evidence that social media exploded with outrage over the taxi drivers, with the same intensity that they did with the Christian bakery and pizzeria?
What the social media activists do (trying to ruin a business for "hypothetically" refusing to cater a gay wedding—it's not like they actually refused anybody) is separate from what the law decides is legal or illegal. I'm more focused on the selective outrage of social media right now.
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