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Old 04-22-2015, 08:11 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,222,338 times
Reputation: 17209

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
Sorry but no, they can disregard the intent of the Framers (nothing new for Congress or the President) but they do so without a basis in law.

Anyway, their is no requirement that the President or any elected official to take the oath of office with a bible - or in the case of Rep. Keith Ellison, Jefferson's Koran - that is a purely a personal expression of their belief and is protected by the Constitution. As for Congress opening its session with a prayer (non-denominational at that) read the post above.
Of course there isn't any requirement to use a Bible. They all are free to express themselves however they want to. Congress has been opened with prayers from many different beliefs......nothing wrong with that.
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,884 posts, read 10,980,100 times
Reputation: 14180
Let's break it down to basics:
Amendment I to the Constitution of The United States:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof:...
Please tell me what law The Congress Of The United States has passed, and the President of the United States has signed respecting the establishment of religion?
NONE, you say?
Then please explain what LAW the Supreme Court has ruled Unconstitutional many times!
Now, what law has the Congress passed, and the President signed, that restricts or prohibits the free exercise of religion, both at the Federal and the State level?
Well, actually, there are WAY too many to post here!
It could easily be claimed that ALL anti-discrimination laws contain such restrictions and/or prohibitions!
Think about it.
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:56 AM
 
7,578 posts, read 5,329,154 times
Reputation: 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Of course there isn't any requirement to use a Bible. They all are free to express themselves however they want to. Congress has been opened with prayers from many different beliefs......nothing wrong with that.
And outside of the fact that it is contrary to the principle of the 1st Amendment as Madison pointed out, like Madison I don't feel that it is a big enough deal to get excised about.

But if you would like to get back to the topic at hand, I think that the excerpts from Madison's writings clearly indicated that he and the other Framers intended to protect religion from the national government and the government from organized religion.
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Old 04-23-2015, 01:56 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,645,820 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
When the government forces me to worship, then the OP will have a point. Since it doesn't, never has and never will, the OP is a bunch of nonsense.

What if the government forces me, not to worship.

Oh wait.... They have.
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Old 04-23-2015, 02:06 PM
 
9,879 posts, read 8,021,863 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Freedom of religion, is not defined as freedom from religion.... Today's definition of Church & State by the centralized government, was not the same as those that founded this nation.......

Our founding fathers would beg to differ. There was a whole lot of God & Jesus Christ, in Government to bring freedom to this nation.


Freedom of religion, is much different than that of, freedom from religion.

Who do we believe? Government that is pushing on the 1st amendment of freedom, or our actual founding fathers of this once great nation.
Blah blah blah. Bottom line, folks have the freedom to not believe in a religion, thank my lucky charms!
And all that talk of God from politicians back then was no different than today.
Chalk it up to the bandwagon effect and appeasement of the Puritans.
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Old 04-23-2015, 02:11 PM
 
Location: PA
5,562 posts, read 5,684,460 times
Reputation: 1962
A government is as good as it people.
First we must assume they have principles of liberty, which fundamentally requires some morals and REASON.

If they have no principles of liberty, freedom and justice with using RACE, SEX or RELIGION as your bases of judgements.
You will find good government

If a religion is shaping your laws which is not all the same, your justice system just as if it was a race, sex and or ideology all things control America is doomed.

When you intrust men and women to your government who have power to tax, jail you and kill you, they control the guns the military and police have to be careful who runs your government.
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Old 04-23-2015, 02:12 PM
 
48 posts, read 23,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
What if the government forces me, not to worship.

Oh wait.... They have.
How is the government forcing you not to worship?
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Old 04-23-2015, 05:03 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,222,338 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
And outside of the fact that it is contrary to the principle of the 1st Amendment as Madison pointed out, like Madison I don't feel that it is a big enough deal to get excised about.

But if you would like to get back to the topic at hand, I think that the excerpts from Madison's writings clearly indicated that he and the other Framers intended to protect religion from the national government and the government from organized religion.
I am on topic. You can say this all day but the facts are it hasn't been the case ever. Those elected to office are covered by the first as much as anyone.
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Old 04-23-2015, 05:33 PM
 
7,578 posts, read 5,329,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I am on topic.
"Freedom of religion... Not freedom from religion."

That is the topic.
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Old 04-23-2015, 05:55 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,645,820 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRIIV View Post
How is the government forcing you not to worship?

Openly worship in public...

Christians Arrested for Reading Bible Outside DMV Declared ‘Not Guilty’ By California Court | Christian News Network

Verdict in for pastor arrested for reading Bible



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1bfgUNLKSA


http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes...ble-study.html


ACTS CHAPTER 4:1-22, “Peter And John Arrested For Preaching”
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