Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm an atheist so I only know what they have represented themselves as, to everyone else.
As you said, Christians are not perfect
I don't think any Christians represent themselves as "perfect." Neither do the Dugger's; but, remember, the TV show is highly produced and edited. Thus, as a production, what we see on TV isn't the whole picture.
This family, like any other family, has ups and downs, squabbles and disagreements, etc. We'll never see that. We cannot assume from what we see that they think they are "the perfect family" without faults and without sin. Neither is it their intention to make people believe they are. I don't think they would want that.
It is unfortunate that these secularists (most of whom have probably never seen the show, but only know of them from the tabloids), out of pure spitefulness, have misrepresented them. Thus, they are now gleeful that their faults are exposed. And, in fact, it is obvious that there was an intentional effort undertaken to dig up some "dirt" that could be used to destroy them.
The homosexual activists have only succeeded in bringing more hatred against themselves with this, just as the destruction of Christian businesses who have refused their services for "gay 'weddings'" has done.
I don't think any Christians represent themselves as "perfect." Neither do the Dugger's; but, remember, the TV show is highly produced and edited. Thus, as a production, what we see on TV isn't the whole picture.
This family, like any other family, has ups and downs, squabbles and disagreements, etc. We'll never see that. We cannot assume from what we see that they think they are "the perfect family" without faults and without sin. Neither is it their intention to make people believe they are. I don't think they would want that.
It is unfortunate that these secularists (most of whom have probably never seen the show, but only know of them from the tabloids), out of pure spitefulness, have misrepresented them. Thus, they are now gleeful that their faults are exposed. And, in fact, it is obvious that there was an intentional effort undertaken to dig up some "dirt" that could be used to destroy them.
The homosexual activists have only succeeded in bringing more hatred against themselves with this, just as the destruction of Christian businesses who have refused their services for "gay 'weddings'" has done.
He abused his 4, 9, 10, and 11 year old sisters as well as another young girl that the Duggars were trusted to take care of (and did not). He either waited until they were asleep and touched their breasts and vaginas, or he did it while they were awake and by force, such as holding one of his sisters on his lap while he fondled her or cornering another in the laundry room to force himself on her.
That is not a "squabble" or a "disagreement," that's a felony. At 14 - 16 years old, he knew better. To say otherwise delegitimizes the real trauma these predators cause their victims.
I am not secular, though I do not see things through the Christian worldview (and thank G-d for that given the number of people excusing his behaviors through that lense), and I actually did watch the Duggars in the early seasons until I felt that I was exploiting the kids who had no say in their lives being intruded upon by America.
I don't believe in your concept of sin, but I don't really see what that has to do with the issue at hand. Your "God" might forgive all sins, but that does not mean there should be no punishment for them. Moreover, while I could consider Josh a victim of an abusive household himself, the parents are at fault. They were told no less than 3 times that their son was abusing girls. They didn't do a damn thing. It is 100% their fault that there are 5 victims. They could have, and should have, put a stop to it by reporting it to the authorities and making sure that Josh was removed from the home. That is the only way they could have showed they love their family - and instead, they showed that they love their fame and reputation most of all. Karma.
They never reported it to the authorities - going to a friend who is a cop (and a pedophile himself) years after the first incident does not count. The Duggars knew he didn't file a report. We also know that they NEVER took any of the children to any legitimate form of counseling because therapists are mandatory reporters. Had they immediately taken the children for help, a case would have opened in 2002. It didn't. The Duggars covered this up with all of their might.
Their Christian beliefs are only secondary - and only because they have absolutely framed themselves as moral superiors. Did you miss Michelle's robocalls saying that transgender people are a threat to children (which is absolutely, 100% a lie - doesn't the Bible say a little something about that?)? All the while, it was HER SON that was a threat to children - a threat that her family saw fit to do nothing about and shield from justice at the expense of her 4 young daughters.
Defending a person who sexually assaulted his sisters and a friend. Yowza!
Because a 14 year old who who abuses 4 of his sisters and a young babysitter while his parents cover it up is a "mistake" but a 7 year old who inappropriately acts on her curiosity (which is appropriate at 7 but not as a teenager) is a horrible molester simply because she's liberal. Bill Clinton was an adult with consenting adults - horrible that he cheated on his wife, but not anywhere on the same level as a teenager sexually abusing a 4 year old.
But Lena Dunham, man. She was way more in control of her emotions and actions as a 7 year old than Josh was at 14.
*Note: Not that I'm saying what Lena Dunham did was OK, but you cannot compare it to the viciousness of what Josh did.
This family, like any other family, has ups and downs, squabbles and disagreements, etc. We'll never see that. We cannot assume from what we see that they think they are "the perfect family" without faults and without sin. Neither is it their intention to make people believe they are. I don't think they would want that.
Ups and downs???? Squabbles????
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy
The homosexual activists have only succeeded in bringing more hatred against themselves with this, just as the destruction of Christian businesses who have refused their services for "gay 'weddings'" has done.
What does homosexuality have to do with this? Which homosexual individual or activity caused Josh to molest his baby sisters????
Are you sure you are responding to the right thread?
Fact is that the Duggar family harbored this child molester with no therapy or arrest. These people are quick to point fingers at other people but defend their own, convinced all the while they are still right! Take them off the air permanently! We don't need these hypocrites spreading their poison.
I didn't say lock him up and throw away the key. I just think that something should have been done besides send him away and lie to authorities. It is more serious than egging a house or stealing some beer. If molesting young siblings is a teen rite of passage it wouldn't be this shocking. It doesn't matter what committees he's involved in, his job or whether he's on TV. None of that has anything to do with where I stand on the matter. I'm not judging the child, I have much more judgment for his parents choices than his. For them to put themselves in a public and pious position where they're judging other parents and trying to lead while circumventing the law is shocking. What if he could not have gotten through it by building a house, talking to another offender and offering himself to God? Well, like many youthful offenders, he would have continued to harm his siblings and other young girls. They can keep their kids out of school, teach them whatever they want but it doesn't make them less responsible to follow the laws and enforce their children to do so. They taught him it's ok for this to be a secret and that God will fix it and forgive him. Mistakes like that ARE much more serious than others and it does not brand him for life, it would have gotten him directed and appropriate care and it would have shown those young girls that no one has a right to treat them in that manner.
Someone doesn't end up on a registry or with a record the second someone seeks help. There's more to it than that. And I believe that if he's changed it is great but there is more to be concerned about, forgiveness coming from those young girls, that's not curative for a child who has been abused. Please tell me again what they did? I read the same articles and statements and reports. He was sent away which made him unavailable to be interviewed, his parents said he was in "treatment" he came back and then talked to that trooper who was a friend and not a trooper in that scenario, who didn't do anything, and then he said sorry and it was over. His parents didn't even seek "help" for him for over a year. That's not helpful, safe or protective. It's just not.
Youthful offenders typically need more than that.
You are absolutely correct. This young man should have had counseling by someone qualified to counsel sex offenders. AND, most certainly, his female victims should have had counseling by someone qualified to counsel young victims of sexual abuse.
I do not think the pedophile (the trooper now in jail for kiddie porn) qualifies as appropriate counseling or Mr. Goddard - who has numerous sexual allegations against him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbagg
the way the media and the public, even those here are going after him, he not going to be able to handle it, i'm afraid he will end up doing harm to himself.
I hope that is not the case. He needs counseling by a qualified therapist. Let's start there. Will he seek it?
In my mind, it is his parents who are to blame. 100%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy
I don't think any Christians represent themselves as "perfect." Neither do the Dugger's; but, remember, the TV show is highly produced and edited. Thus, as a production, what we see on TV isn't the whole picture.
This family, like any other family, has ups and downs, squabbles and disagreements, etc. We'll never see that. We cannot assume from what we see that they think they are "the perfect family" without faults and without sin. Neither is it their intention to make people believe they are. I don't think they would want that.
It is unfortunate that these secularists (most of whom have probably never seen the show, but only know of them from the tabloids), out of pure spitefulness, have misrepresented them. Thus, they are now gleeful that their faults are exposed. And, in fact, it is obvious that there was an intentional effort undertaken to dig up some "dirt" that could be used to destroy them.
The homosexual activists have only succeeded in bringing more hatred against themselves with this, just as the destruction of Christian businesses who have refused their services for "gay 'weddings'" has done.
They represented themselves time and again as a moral authority on 'family values'. A bit ironic, no?
And since you frequently reference how homosexuals are such a small percentage of society, do not delude yourself that it is only the homosexuals who are outraged and want this show off the air - NOW. Each and every one of their children should attend required counseling by a certified therapist. Not some disgraced kiddie porn policeman.
How can you defend the actions of JimB and Michelle in this instance?
Meanwhile, Michelle is preaching about the evils of the LGBT community and how they might be 'predators'. While she already knew one in her midst.
You CANNOT display yourself and your family as the 'paragon' of conservatism and virtue; demonize other people who have sexual desires that differ from yours - and then expect everyone to just turn their head when they find out about the skeletons in your closet. Big skeletons.
The smart ones will quickly disassociate themselves.
Why is it cruel ostracizing a predator who molested his own sisters. Does anyone even care about them
I care about them. I guess you stopped reading at the part you bolded, but I finished by saying how important it is to ensure that the victims of these types of crime, or any crime like it, be given the necessary help and support they need to help them feel safe and secure in their own lives.
Why is it cruel? Think about it. Who does it help? His victims won't get better by us ostracizing him, he's not less likely to reoffend is we ostracize him, and frankly, what kind of society wants to do that to people who have been shown to have certain weaknesses. Stability is key in cases like this. I find it hard to believe he would do something like this again, but being made into a pariah would make anyone more likely to do it again.
But that's our system, both societal and judicial. We value vengeance, not rehabilitation. That's of course why we have 2 million people in jail, 42,000 of them given life without parole, and of course 60% recidivism. But that's our culture. Deluded into thinking it's leading the world and believing ourselves to be a 'Christian country' yet not doing any of those things. In terms of our treatment of people, we look more like Iran than we do a western nation. We used to be the most forward thinking country on the planet. Then the Cold War happened and we became so consumed with leading the world against the USSR, that we started to think we were perfect as we are. And now look at us.
Our justice system is not just a failure.... it' a disgrace. We would rather ostracize a 14 year old sex offender than help him to get to a better place in his life. That says more about us than it does about him.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
