Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
!. Don't Walmarts all have a sign saying "no weapons".?
2. The gun had been altered to look like a real gun.
And I am not saying the police were right. Just trying to clarify.
1. The gun John Crawford was from the Walmart he was shot in. Any "no weapons" signs they have are obviously not referring to the toy guns they sell and that John Crawford picked up.
2. Unless there was something illegal about carrying a gun in an open-carry state, real or not, Tamir Rice did nothing illegal. Regardless, seeing as it's a toy gun, Tamir Rice did nothing illegal by carrying that toy gun in public.
I'm just saying it's possible they may not have shot if they could have seen the bright orange on the barrel and realized it was a toy gun. But as quickly as they shot, they may not have noticed anyway. They were totally irresponsible.
If I'm a cop that orange cap is meaningless to me becsue it could just as easily be a real gun with orange cap.
The difference is how the gun or replica guns were being handled. You can't go waving a gun around public.
Who was waving a gun in public? One kid was carrying a toy gun in public. One adult was carrying a toy gun inside a Walmart. One adult was carrying a real gun in an airport.
1. You'd be right about the swinging a rifle in comm. facility, if that was what John Crawford was doing. He wasn't. Your point is moot. What's not moot is that OH is an open-carry state, which means John Crawford was well within his rights to be carrying a real gun (which he wasn't) in a Walmart.
2. I don't know what the ruling is on a handgun in a park in Cleveland since OH is open-carry, but it's a moot point since Tamir had a toy gun.
3. So what you have is three legal acts reacted to in two "illegal" ways and one "legal" way by the cops at the scenes.
1. Open carrying a gun legally requires using a sling on a long gun. You can't carry it in your hands.
2. Again if police believed the gun was real, legally it had to be holstered. It's illegal to open carry in your hands.
1. You'd be right about the swinging a rifle in comm. facility, if that was what John Crawford was doing. He wasn't.
The hell he wasn't, he has it in his hand and he's swinging it all over the place. If you are going to carry a firearm whether it's real or replica you need to do it responsibly. Try waving a chainsaw around in public and see how far you get.
Who was waving a gun in public? One kid was carrying a toy gun in public. One adult was carrying a toy gun inside a Walmart.
A gun should never be handled anywhere the way those two were handling them let alone in public. It doesn't matter what you have in your hand; axe, chainsaw, knife.... If you are going to handle a weapon or things that can be weapons in an irresponsible manner it's going to draw the attention of the police.
1. Open carrying a gun legally requires using a sling on a long gun. You can't carry it in your hands.
2. Again if police believed the gun was real, legally it had to be holstered. It's illegal to open carry in your hands.
1. Probably true, but not having a sling doesn't change a legal gun into an illegal one, just like driving a car w/o your seatbelt on in a state that requires it doesn't turn your car into an illegal car. You violated the rules and worst-case, should get a fine. You don't killed for it.
2. Am I a weirdo for thinking it's up to cops to verify that a gun is real before they start shooting? And like you said, it's illegal to carry a gun in your hands. That doesn't give cops carte blanche to kill anyone w/ a gun in their hands. Driving w/o a seatbelt is illegal. That doesn't mean you get to kill the driver.
A gun should never be handled anywhere the way those two were handling them let alone in public. It doesn't matter what you have in your hand; axe, chainsaw, knife.... If you are going to handle a weapon or things that can be weapons in an irresponsible manner it's going to draw the attention of the police.
How does that justify the cops reacting the way they did. They were carrying toy guns w/o a sling or holster. I'm sure they thought "I have a toy gun. I don't need a sling or holster because who in their right mind would shoot me on sight for carrying a toy gun?"
1. You'd be right about the swinging a rifle in comm. facility, if that was what John Crawford was doing. He wasn't. Your point is moot. What's not moot is that OH is an open-carry state, which means John Crawford was well within his rights to be carrying a real gun (which he wasn't) in a Walmart.
2. I don't know what the ruling is on a handgun in a park in Cleveland since OH is open-carry, but it's a moot point since Tamir had a toy gun.
3. So what you have is three legal acts reacted to in two "illegal" ways and one "legal" way by the cops at the scenes.
Yeah... ah, nope.
If you look at the video, swinging the rifle is exactly what the subject was doing. As the muzzle rose to the level where it became a threat to other officers or citizens, I'd have employed the threat - or use - of deadly force, too. Hardly moot.
That the gun the Cleveland lad was brandishing was a toy was not clearly evident to arriving police. As previously noted by other posters, the warning indicator that it was a toy had been removed. (I still don't like what the cop did, but that goes to his training and inexperience, not what was presented to the officers on arrival.) The inoperable nature of the gun is anything but moot - and this is clearly defined in case law.
To call the officers' responses 'illegal' is wrong-headed. Clearly one (the Cleveland response) merits further investigation and may eventually be ruled illegal, while the other one was already adjudicated as legal (read: not illegal).
But my point was is that it isn't all about race, as alluded to in the early posts on this thread. Of the dozens and dozens and dozens of people I've arrested in my career, I can count on one hand the number of those who were not white - which means everyone else I arrested was white. Race was not a factor - criminal conduct was.
How does that justify the cops reacting the way they did. They were carrying toy guns w/o a sling or holster. I'm sure they thought "I have a toy gun. I don't need a sling or holster because who in their right mind would shoot me on sight for carrying a toy gun?"
Those guns are indistinguishable from the real thing, a cop needs to assume it's real. If you are going to be handling a weapon in that manner you can expect to get shot.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
