Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Is Mexico sending us the best people they have, in general?
YES 11 6.21%
NO 154 87.01%
I don't know 12 6.78%
Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-11-2015, 03:17 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,876,419 times
Reputation: 6556

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Well, I think the NEED of the country receiving migrants has seldom played a role. Just look at history, usually people just went to new places without asking anyone, often even stealing land and killing locals
You mean like many of the nomadic Amerindian tribes did to other tribes? Right of conquest was considered legal and practiced worldwide until about the 1930s and 1940's. Now just countries like Mexico (and Russia) are allowed to do it through illegal immigration. Legal Immigration was somewhat needed in America until about the 1920's. It should've been ended then instead of being continuously increased and open up to all the third world since the 1964 Immigration Act.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-11-2015, 03:19 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,876,419 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
That can be said about EVERY country in the world if you wanna go back far enough. Tho many times the locals kicked the invaders OUT.
But not modern day America. We invite them in and make extra sure we don't 'offend' them in any way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2015, 03:28 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,749,338 times
Reputation: 9728
There has never been a right of conquest. Such terms are just used in hindsight to justify colonialism, genocide, etc.
Nor is there a reason why things should be different now. Although of course many countries that are based on stolen land would like to see an end to immigration now that they have what they wanted. It's like with those sinking ship scenarios, where people try to get the last seats on lifeboats and once they secured one, they hit others over the head so they can't get on board as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2015, 03:40 PM
 
62,970 posts, read 29,152,361 times
Reputation: 18592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Well, I think the NEED of the country receiving migrants has seldom played a role. Just look at history, usually people just went to new places without asking anyone, often even stealing land and killing locals
That's why it is called "history". It was a whole different world back then and our planet was far less populated with plentiful resources for everyone. Today we live in a much more civilized world with immigration laws in place for every country and soveirgn borders. Bring yourself up to 2015 and stop living in the past. Those people are all dead now and no one alive today is responsible for the actions of dead people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2015, 03:42 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,876,419 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
There has never been a right of conquest. Such terms are just used in hindsight to justify colonialism, genocide, etc.
Yes there was. It's not used to justify but to explain all cultures did it. It was widely practiced by Amerindians themselves, especially in what is now Mexico, Central America and S. America. Why do you think the Spanish conquistadors with as little as a few hundred men were able to recruit many Amerindian allies and conquer the Aztecs and Incas?


Quote:
Nor is there a reason why things should be different now. Although of course many countries that are based on stolen land would like to see an end to immigration now that they have what they wanted. It's like with those sinking ship scenarios, where people try to get the last seats on lifeboats and once they secured one, they hit others over the head so they can't get on board as well.
You're just saying America has no right to defend the sovereignty of its nation and borders which is different. That right was always there for every nation even during the times of the right of conquest. And Mexico strictly enforces immigration and naturalization laws itself.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2015, 03:47 PM
 
20,524 posts, read 15,906,907 times
Reputation: 5948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
There has never been a right of conquest. Such terms are just used in hindsight to justify colonialism, genocide, etc.
Nor is there a reason why things should be different now. Although of course many countries that are based on stolen land would like to see an end to immigration now that they have what they wanted. It's like with those sinking ship scenarios, where people try to get the last seats on lifeboats and once they secured one, they hit others over the head so they can't get on board as well.
Ask Hitler, ask Stalin, ask the Italian leader during WW 2, ask China when they grabbed Tibet, ask Portugal and Spain when they grabbed what's now LatAm and so on. Hell; ask Putin when he's TRYING to grab more of Ukraine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2015, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,285,621 times
Reputation: 34059
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
False. Mexico's policies and authorities do help smuggle and send drugs and people to America. Even if all they did was just look the other way, which isn't all they're doing, they'd still be responsible.
yet another claim with zero substantiation
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2015, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,285,621 times
Reputation: 34059
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
You're just saying America has no right to defend the sovereignty of its nation and borders which is different. That right was always there for every nation even during the times of the right of conquest. And Mexico strictly enforces immigration and naturalization laws itself.
Your elected congress and corporate employers are the ones who don't want to defend the borders because illegal immigration works very well for them. busts unions, keeps wages down, gives us peons something to fight with each other about ... If employers who hired illegals went to prison for it the problem would be solved rather quickly
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2015, 05:08 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,805,587 times
Reputation: 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Your elected congress and corporate employers are the ones who don't want to defend the borders because illegal immigration works very well for them. busts unions, keeps wages down, gives us peons something to fight with each other about ... If employers who hired illegals went to prison for it the problem would be solved rather quickly
Defending the border is pretty much a hopeless task. You could do it in some places but much of it is water and indefensible without depriving US citizens of their access. That is a price no one in or out of Texas is willing to pay.

And almost half come here on airplanes. So the best you can hope is to cut it down a bit. Not even in half.

The days when employment could be used to control illegal employment is long gone. You can force the illegals to the black economy but that will in no way force them out. The trades in residential building for instance will continue to employ illegals no matter what happens...as will landscaping companies and roofers. These are all businesses where it is impractical to know who is actually on the job. No time clocks...no work stations...and generally low level subs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2015, 05:13 PM
 
1,267 posts, read 3,075,578 times
Reputation: 1254
Mexico does not send anyone. The best or worst dobt come here. The poor do. Just like your ancestors were poor too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:37 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top