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Originally Posted by Old Guard
Actually I think a lot of your "facts"/stats are not a
concern in the situation to most people. The fact is most people do not care if
criminals or low lives kill other criminals or low lives.
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Fair enough, but even when it comes to mass shootings, peoples priorities are off base. For instance, the Lafeyette shooting that took place a few weeks ago garnered hours and hours of coverage and analysis. Two people were killed.
But THIS mass shooting, in where six innocent children wee killed over the weekend, was treated as just another run-of-the-mill shooting. It got no more attention than a bad drug deal would have gotten. Why is that? Why are we so selective in our outrage?
Houston sheriff: "We're all hurting" after mass murder - CBS News
Most people are probably unaware that this even took place. It certainly didn't spark any national conversation.
Or what about this case, in where a father shot his two boys?
Statesville man admits fatally shooting his young sons, sheriff
No national outcry. No talk of gun control.
The simple fact is, mass shootings, regular shootings, etc. whereby innocent people die happen all the time. If that was really what was driving this debate, we'd hear about all these cases too, but we don't. People only seem to care about those incidents that make up only a fraction of a percent of all crime. At worst, people are hypocrites. At best, their priorities are warped and they have selective outrage.
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I really do not care about "Moms Demand Action", frankly never heard of
them.
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Sure......
You're comment about "women and mothers" driving this debate was a dead give away, hate to tell you. But, never the less, as I said before, you're losing the culture war on that front too, because more women than even before are turning to guns as a fun activity, for sport, and for self defense.....
Women Fastest Growing Group Of US Gun Owners - abc News
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But it does make me question why people would show up at Starbucks with guns
to support their right to bear arms if the public for the most part supported
gun rights?
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For the same reason that gay people have pride parades, even though public opinion has been swaying in their favor the last few years.
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Dude, I grew up with guns, have owned guns and even picked up a custom Tromix
.223 on September 11th 2001 from an FFL holder in a parking lot
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How could that be, considering that FFL dealers are required to run a background check on all sales? He have the forms and everything in his trunk, or what?
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. And then there is a even a newer group that owns guns to kill Zombiez. LOL.
At that point the gun is being treated as a toy by some mental midget who I do
not wish to trust with a gun.
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Anyone with a modicum of common sense knows that that's a joke, not a serious thing.
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I think the effect of guns for self defense is greatly exaggerated.
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That's nice. Got anything to back that up? I'm not interested in what you "think", I'm only interested in the facts.
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I really do not follow that. I just do not think guns save as many lives as
people claim they do. I think guns cause as many problems as they resolve.
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So I'll ask you again, what about the people who DO defend their lives with a gun? Is it just too bad for them? They'll just have to die so that someone else "might" live? I don't know about to you, but to me, an innocent persons life that's taken with a gun is no more or less important than someone who loses their life because they couldn't defend themselves with a gun.
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Stop trying to label me as some anti gun liberal. I have NO PROBLEM with the
NRA.
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That's paradoxical, considering that you stand against everything they stand for, going by your posts to this thread.
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I believe I am still a lifetime member. You can post as many sources as
you wish about how many lives guns saved. I just think that more are lost
through accident, domestic disputes and a good drunk with guns than are actually
saved. I do not have a problem with people owning guns but the problem is that
I do not think some people are mentally stable or mature enough to have one.
Like having children, which is another right.
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So now I'm really confused..... Are you advocating for sweeping new laws and a repeal of the 2A, or are you just predicting it?
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Do you care as much about people killed in a drive by as you do about kids
killed in a school?
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No, but again, there are innocent lives that are taken in domestic disputes, ( links I posted above ) and they are just as innocent as those kids in Sandy Hook, yet we treat them and cover them in vastly different ways. If a mass shooting tales place in public, it's a national event. If it takes place at a home, it's looked at as just another domestic dispute. The problem is emotional response, and that I think is what accounts for the differences in how we think about these stories.
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Maybe to you. I would be interested to see that in court. 
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Hard to tell how an activist court might rule on such a case, but Thomas Jefferson had some ideas on this:
"""Whenever the words of a law will bear two meanings, one of which will give effect to the law, and the other will defeat it, the former must be supposed to have been intended by the Legislature, because they could not intend that meaning, which would defeat their intention, in passing that law; and in a statute, as in a will, the intention of the party is to be sought after." --Thomas Jefferson to Albert Gallatin, 1808. ME 12:110 """
To suggest that "arms" are protected, but that the very thing that is needed to make those "arms" useful isn't protected, is intellectually bankrupt. You can't have a right to something, but then ban the means through which people would exercise that Right, basically placing a de facto ban on the Right itself. There is some precedent. For instance, when black people had the Right to vote, but the government put all kinds of obstacles in their way designed to keep them from exercising that Right, it was unconstitutional.
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Exactly. Which is what I think will happen the the 2nd Amendment.
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Maybe, but, in our 200+ year existence, the Bill of Rights has never once been altered or amended. If you want the 2A repealed, go for it. Start the movement. I disagree with it, but I at least can respect it if it's done the proper way.
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To commit a crime at all or commit a gun crime?
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To commit a crime at all. CCW's rarely commit any crime, but those who commit gun crime are an even smaller group. Most of the few crimes committed by CCW's aren't gun related crimes.
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OK, so there is it is. Only 5% of the people have CCL. This is why I am not
interested in the CCL holders commit less crimes stat.
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Why? You don't think anyone should be legally permitted to carry a gun at all, right? But how do you justify that, considering that the vast majority of those who ARE legally permitted to carry never commit any crime?
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I do not see it as evening the playing field. An old woman just is not going to
be as fast as most healthy young men.
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So in other words, she should just submit to the thugs demands, right? She's not fast enough anyway, so she shouldn't even try, right?
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So just having a gun does not mean she will be able to access it.
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True, but do you know what will
guarantee she won't be able to access it? If she's not allowed to carry it.
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I had guns, .22's, when I was growing up, but we did not carry them around
everywhere and especially when we were with large groups of kids. I do
not think that people are targeting schools because they are GFSZ's.
Frankly until this conversation I was never even aware of that.
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They target places where they know that no one is going to be able to fight back and where they will be able to kill the most people. The fact that schools are gun free zones contributes to that. They know there likely isn't going to be anyone there who can fight back, and as soon as people who can fight back show up, these losers usually off themselves.
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Originally Posted by Old Guard
After reading that you feel you would be a defenseless sitting duck without a gun I think I can easily understand where you are coming from and I know I cannot argue against fears and phobias. Have a nice day.  |
Boy that sure is the truth......
Your posts are evidence. Your arguments are completely driven by fears and phobias, and that's why you don't care about facts and statistics, as you said yourself.
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