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Today's NY Times editorial, Build a New Hudson River Tunnel discusses the need for a new rail tunnel to protect against what Senator Chuck Schumer calls "“a regional transportation Armageddon.” As the editorial describes it "(t)he first step would be a meeting of all parties that would benefit from the project, including representatives from Amtrak, New Jersey Transit, the states of New Jersey and New York, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the federal government and Congress. Each of these institutions will have to participate, and each will eventually 'write a check.'" There is a sorely missing group of parties here the construction unions, the governmental officials in charge of "poverty" programs and "community organizers.
While Tappan Zee litigation continues relating to "the wage difference between carpenters and dock builders" where "(c)arpenters are paid $70.11 per hour, compared with dock builders that make $92.47 per hour" no consideration is given to a "workfare" program where benefits recipients would apprentice and be paid, say, $22 an hour to learn a trade and $40-$45 per our when working at these trades. The cost numbers of $20 billion to build these tunnels and related train station improvements is eye-popping and ultimately unfeasible. No matter how badly needed nothing is going to get built at those figures.
There are other projects just as urgently needed. New York needs at least one more water tunnel, so the existing three water tunnels can be shut down seriatim and rebuilt. Again labor costs are prohibitive. Other gold-plating on these projects needs to be removed, but all must participate. These projects must happen and the costs must be made bearable.
This needed to happen 50 years ago, MTA should be running rail in North Jersey, and there should be another tunnel crossing into the city for traffic. Also the last part is very true, a new tunnel should be built in order to shut down and properly renovate the other ones. Much of the infrastructure there is in desperate need of attention.
Today's NY Times editorial, Build a New Hudson River Tunnel discusses the need for a new rail tunnel to protect against what Senator Chuck Schumer calls "“a regional transportation Armageddon.” As the editorial describes it "(t)he first step would be a meeting of all parties that would benefit from the project, including representatives from Amtrak, New Jersey Transit, the states of New Jersey and New York, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the federal government and Congress. Each of these institutions will have to participate, and each will eventually 'write a check.'" There is a sorely missing group of parties here the construction unions, the governmental officials in charge of "poverty" programs and "community organizers.
While Tappan Zee litigation continues relating to "the wage difference between carpenters and dock builders" where "(c)arpenters are paid $70.11 per hour, compared with dock builders that make $92.47 per hour" no consideration is given to a "workfare" program where benefits recipients would apprentice and be paid, say, $22 an hour to learn a trade and $40-$45 per our when working at these trades. The cost numbers of $20 billion to build these tunnels and related train station improvements is eye-popping and ultimately unfeasible. No matter how badly needed nothing is going to get built at those figures.
There are other projects just as urgently needed. New York needs at least one more water tunnel, so the existing three water tunnels can be shut down seriatim and rebuilt. Again labor costs are prohibitive. Other gold-plating on these projects needs to be removed, but all must participate. These projects must happen and the costs must be made bearable.
^^^Why go to college?
$22hr to LEARN a trade? Give me a freaking break. Most people who attempt to learn quit once the going gets tough - eg...the foreman yelled at me so I'm quitting.
This needed to happen 50 years ago, MTA should be running rail in North Jersey, and there should be another tunnel crossing into the city for traffic. Also the last part is very true, a new tunnel should be built in order to shut down and properly renovate the other ones. Much of the infrastructure there is in desperate need of attention.
You're so right. The Rye-Oyster Bay Bridge was stopped by "environmentalists" who were more concerned with the ecology of rich parts of Rye (in Westchester County) and Oyster Bay, Long Island and didn't give a fig about the unneeded fumes generated from millions of auto trips going around the west end of Long Island Sound to get from Connecticut or Westchester to Long Island.
I want the thread to focus on the need to make the costs bearable. The combination of $70/$92 per hour, plus fringes labor costs, undone projects and lots of Michael Browns and Freddie Greys loafing around or worse is ridiculous. Even prisoners could work.
We need the projects. We need work for idle hands. And the unions lose nothing since the projects won't happen anyway at these costs. All that will happen is Albany, Trenton and Washington will point fingers at others to pay since no one can. That happened with the Tappan Zee Bridge until it was about to collapse. It's now being built at a ridiculously high cost and no one has figured out who is actually going to pay for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory
^^^Why go to college?
$22hr to LEARN a trade? Give me a freaking break. Most people who attempt to learn quit once the going gets tough - eg...the foreman yelled at me so I'm quitting.
You're so right. The Rye-Oyster Bay Bridge was stopped by "environmentalists" who were more concerned with the ecology of rich parts of Rye (in Westchester County) and Oyster Bay, Long Island and didn't give a fig about the unneeded fumes generated from millions of auto trips going around the west end of Long Island Sound to get from Connecticut or Westchester to Long Island.
I want the thread to focus on the need to make the costs bearable. The combination of $70/$92 per hour, plus fringes labor costs, undone projects and lots of Michael Browns and Freddie Greys loafing around or worse is ridiculous. Even prisoners could work.
We need the projects. We need work for idle hands. And the unions lose nothing since the projects won't happen anyway at these costs. All that will happen is Albany, Trenton and Washington will point fingers at others to pay since no one can. That happened with the Tappan Zee Bridge until it was about to collapse. It's now being built at a ridiculously high cost and no one has figured out who is actually going to pay for it.So $70/$92 + fringes are the only way to go?
Welcome to New Yawk/New Joysey.
I gotz mine, now yew getz yawz.
Getting into these trade unions requires you know somebody, they aren't giving that up without a fight, and they'll put the giant inflatable rat outside your building if you don't pay up!!
You're so right. The Rye-Oyster Bay Bridge was stopped by "environmentalists" who were more concerned with the ecology of rich parts of Rye (in Westchester County) and Oyster Bay, Long Island and didn't give a fig about the unneeded fumes generated from millions of auto trips going around the west end of Long Island Sound to get from Connecticut or Westchester to Long Island.
I want the thread to focus on the need to make the costs bearable. The combination of $70/$92 per hour, plus fringes labor costs, undone projects and lots of Michael Browns and Freddie Greys loafing around or worse is ridiculous. Even prisoners could work.
We need the projects. We need work for idle hands. And the unions lose nothing since the projects won't happen anyway at these costs. All that will happen is Albany, Trenton and Washington will point fingers at others to pay since no one can. That happened with the Tappan Zee Bridge until it was about to collapse. It's now being built at a ridiculously high cost and no one has figured out who is actually going to pay for it.So $70/$92 + fringes are the only way to go?
Never heard of that project before, but looking it up, it would have helped a lot to eliminate the need to drive into the Bronx just to get around. The congestion in that area is so horrible, I always hated driving it.
Getting into these trade unions requires you know somebody, they aren't giving that up without a fight, and they'll put the giant inflatable rat outside your building if you don't pay up!!
The first time I saw those rats in the city, I thought it was some weird street artist project or something....I knew it couldn't mean the building had rats because all of NYC has rats.
Never heard of that project before, but looking it up, it would have helped a lot to eliminate the need to drive into the Bronx just to get around. The congestion in that area is so horrible, I always hated driving it.
The Cross Bronx Expressway is 6.5 miles of pure hell.
What's funny is if you drive it at 2Am (if there's no construction)..you get through in about 10 minutes.
Today's NY Times editorial, Build a New Hudson River Tunnel discusses the need for a new rail tunnel to protect against what Senator Chuck Schumer calls "“a regional transportation Armageddon.” As the editorial describes it "(t)he first step would be a meeting of all parties that would benefit from the project, including representatives from Amtrak, New Jersey Transit, the states of New Jersey and New York, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the federal government and Congress. Each of these institutions will have to participate, and each will eventually 'write a check.'" There is a sorely missing group of parties here the construction unions, the governmental officials in charge of "poverty" programs and "community organizers.
While Tappan Zee litigation continues relating to "the wage difference between carpenters and dock builders" where "(c)arpenters are paid $70.11 per hour, compared with dock builders that make $92.47 per hour" no consideration is given to a "workfare" program where benefits recipients would apprentice and be paid, say, $22 an hour to learn a trade and $40-$45 per our when working at these trades. The cost numbers of $20 billion to build these tunnels and related train station improvements is eye-popping and ultimately unfeasible. No matter how badly needed nothing is going to get built at those figures.
There are other projects just as urgently needed. New York needs at least one more water tunnel, so the existing three water tunnels can be shut down seriatim and rebuilt. Again labor costs are prohibitive. Other gold-plating on these projects needs to be removed, but all must participate. These projects must happen and the costs must be made bearable.
Know that any projected costs are exponentially underestimated.
Reluctance for infrastructure projects is in part due to gross underestimated costs with no repercussions to the estimators. Still, the feds state local country demonstrate their incomptenece to bring projects in on time and under budget. These costs are a laughable lie.
Maybe exclude everyone but Trump and let him oversee any infrastructure projects.
It is a sore point for all NJ taxpayers to suppport the few that work in NYC or want to be entertained in the 'city'. Too bad, crowd people on an island and then complain there isn't enough access. Demonstrated shortsighted government has been and always will be a disater, compliments to the voters who keep electing them and tolerate their gross incompetence. Move away if you feel stressed by the commute.
Obama's stimulus package and shovel ready jobs took care of all our uinfrastructure needs.
Know that any projected costs are exponentially underestimated.
Reluctance for infrastructure projects is in part due to gross underestimated costs with no repercussions to the estimators. Still, the feds state local country demonstrate their incomptenece to bring projects in on time and under budget. These costs are a laughable lie.
Maybe exclude everyone but Trump and let him oversee any infrastructure projects.
It is a sore point for all NJ taxpayers to suppport the few that work in NYC or want to be entertained in the 'city'. Too bad, crowd people on an island and then complain there isn't enough access. Demonstrated shortsighted government has been and always will be a disater, compliments to the voters who keep electing them and tolerate their gross incompetence. Move away if you feel stressed by the commute.
Obama's stimulus package and shovel ready jobs took care of all our uinfrastructure needs.
Actually that only took care of the projects that were ready to go and waiting on federal money, it had nothing to do with projects that were in the planning stage. At the peak of the recession, we should have passed a real infrastructure bill that would have put a number of this projects into full construction swing.
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