Planned Parenthood Moves From Bad to Much Worse (country, represent, issues)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am stuck wondering what your principles are if you believe that abortion should be illegal in the 9th month. Why? The baby is not alive according to you. Why do you support limiting a woman's ability to make her choice in the 9th month for a baby that you Sa is not alive?
if my thought process is over your head, stop trying to figure it out as obviously you re too confused. I support the law as written. it is about viability for the umpteenth time. if you can't wrap your head around that I can't help you.
I accept risk every time I get in a car, that doesn't mean I should not seek medical assistance to remediate any injuries I may sustain in an accident.
Same goes for pregnancy. If birth control fails, I would take advantage of modern medicine to rectify the situation and abort ASAP. Women should not have to risk their health, their very lives, because of an accident.
Lots of things that are practically required to engage in everyday life involve risk. Driving, walking down the street, eating, etc. But this analogy doesn't really work.
Sex is clearly a huge part of human nature and life would be far less exciting and enjoyable without it, but it's not required to participate in society like driving and the rest. Chances are you have to walk or drive down the road to get groceries; you don't have to have sex to do that.
if my thought process is over your head, stop trying to figure it out as obviously you re too confused. I support the law as written. it is about viability for the umpteenth time. if you can't wrap your head around that I can't help you.
I assure you it's not over my head.
You've been inconsistent with your logic. Maybe it's time to take some time to actually find out what you really believe.
You always avoid direct answers by stating that you have been clear, when you haven't.
You haven't even been able to reconcile the contradiction you have regarding abortion in the 9th month.
Lots of things that are practically required to engage in everyday life involve risk. Driving, walking down the street, eating, etc. But this analogy doesn't really work.
Sex is clearly a huge part of human nature and life would be far less exciting and enjoyable without it, but it's not required to participate in society like driving and the rest. Chances are you have to walk or drive down the road to get groceries; you don't have to have sex to do that.
And going to the doctor after a car accident doesn't require you to kill someone else to heal you.
Exactly - every abortion question ultimately boils down to when life begins. It's too late for me to get into deeper into that discussion, but that's half of what I try to establish in the debates with pro-choicers. So that's progress as far as I'm concerned.
Regarding circumstances you mentioned, my position means that I would have the girl/woman go through with the pregnancy. Each of those is a terrible situation, and I don't wish it on anyone. However, I don't see those as any different than another unfortunate event, such as a car-wreck that leaves someone crippled or a disease that disables someone. Everything should be done to prevent those from occurring, and everything should be done to offer assistance after the fact,[b] but it can't be undone. Most importantly, it's not the unborn child's fault that it's life began in bad circumstances, so it shouldn't pay the price.
The solution isn't death for the new life (as I believe it to be), it's:
Sex education
Availability of pregnancy control (some pro-lifers may disagree with me on the first two)
Extremely harsh penalties for rapists, particularly when a pregnancy results
Greater support for women who become pregnant unintentionally
And more broadly, societal change in terms of respect for women as people rather than objects (i.e., teaching boys how to be respectful men)
Ending abortion, to me, is just the most urgent and important step in the pro-life movement. I think there's a lot of common ground with pro-choicers for me when it comes to rounding out pro-life principles like stable homes, family planning, pregnancy resources, etc.
yes, mistakes can be "undone" that is what abortion is. people get second chances all the time. fail a grade in school, you take it over. do a crime, you get probation and or do the time and get released. fail at a job promotion one year, the next year you reapply.
all of the things you mentioned is great. you are a forward thinking pro lifer. however there are others in your camp that do not believe in BC nor do they want sex ed. what do you do then?
what about undesirable women having babies? you really want the crack addicted prostitute having and raising a child. really want a baby to be born addicted to drugs?
the other question is why should a woman be forced to stay pregnant against her will? much less labor and deliver, raise or adopt a child out?
do you believe in abortion doe rape and incest?
and why do you think anyone who doesn't know a woman should have the right to dictate to her what she does with her own reproduction?
You've been inconsistent with your logic. Maybe it's time to take some time to actually find out what you really believe.
You always avoid direct answers by stating that you have been clear, when you haven't.
You haven't even been able to reconcile the contradiction you have regarding abortion in the 9th month.
there is no contradiction at 9 months the baby is viable. you do not abort a viable baby. much different than a baby that is not viable. how hard is that to understand.
Lots of things that are practically required to engage in everyday life involve risk. Driving, walking down the street, eating, etc. But this analogy doesn't really work.
Sex is clearly a huge part of human nature and life would be far less exciting and enjoyable without it, but it's not required to participate in society like driving and the rest. Chances are you have to walk or drive down the road to get groceries; you don't have to have sex to do that.
As much as you would like it, women do not become incubators, first and foremost, who lose personal autonomy, just because they conceive.
Women are people with rights, we will not be relegated to the status of breeding stock just because we become pregnant.
my stance has never waivered. I agree and support our laws and regulations on abortions as they are now. defining "life" is subjective otherwise we would not be having this discussion. I could care less if you consider it a life in the womb or not. nor do I really care what the woman who has an abortion defines life as. when she is pregnant and if her choice is abortion it is her right to have one.
viability has a lot to do with how the law defines life. otherwise it would be lawful to abort the day before delivery.
It is subjective. But that's what makes you and your ilk so batsheetcrazy. Why do you and your kind insist that a baby is just a "fetus" that means nothing until it takes it first breath? I know why. You CAN'T believe otherwise b/c the guilt would be overwhelming. It's called denial.
Does the 21 weeker who needs help to live not count? But lives?
Because that is where we are. 21 weeks - that baby can live outside of the uterus. Used to be 28 weeks was the defining point and not so great outcomes. Then that changed as science and medicine changed. Then 26 weeks. Then 25. Now 21. Quality of life is a different issue at 21 weeks, but it's getting there and unless you want to euthanize the severely impaired/deformed after they pop out of a uterus after spending 9 months in and take their first breath….
And when 8 weeker's can live outside of the uterus….you and your abortion friends are going to have to pee on a stick and make a decision a lot sooner to prove a reason to abort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui
a woman does not now have the right to just change her mind in the 9th month and get an abortion.
nor do I think most woman would change their mind in the 9th month of pregnancy. as I said I support the laws we have on the books now.
late term abortions are done in the third trimester when tests (that can not be done before this time) show there is some serious fetal defects that compromise the life of the baby. and or the woman's life is in danger. you can't just walk into an abortion clinic at 9 months and say changed my mind I want to abort and have it happen.
What new "tests" are out there in the 3rd trimester that weren't around 7 years ago when I was pregnant with my 3rd? And would show
Quote:
there is some serious fetal defect that compromise the life of the baby. and or the woman's life is in danger.
Last edited by Informed Info; 08-22-2015 at 11:37 PM..
It is subjective. But what makes you and your ilk so batsheetcrazy right? Why do you and your kind insist that a baby is just a "fetus" that means nothing until it takes it first breath? I know why. You CAN'T believe otherwise b/c the guilt would be overwhelming. It's called denial.
Does the 21 weeker who needs help to live not count? But lives?
Because that is where we are. 21 weeks - that baby can live outside of the uterus. Used to be 28 weeks was the defining point. Then 26. Then 25. Now 21. Quality of life is a different issue, but unless you want to euthanize the severely impaired/deformed after they pop out of a uterus after spending 9 months in and take their first breath….
And when 8 weeker's can live outside of the uterus….you and your abortion friends are going to have to pee on a stick and make a decision a lot sooner to prove a reason to abort.
What new "tests" are out there in the 3rd trimester that weren't around 7 years ago when I was pregnant with my 3rd? And would show
Have you ever been pregnant without having an abortion and actually gotten to the 3rd trimester? You don't sound like you have.
pro choice women are not stupid. we know what abortion is. you want us to call it a baby, we can, and if our choice for our life is abortion that is what will do. most women who have an abortion do not feel guilty about it as it was the best choice for them at the time. it's called choice not all women make the same choice.
at 21 weeks not many will survive. when medical technology makes it so they can and it is common place the laws I bet will change. I have no problem with that. I doubt seriously that there will ever be a time when an 8 week old fetus can live outside the womb.
I am sure the tests were around 7 years ago. there are severe fetal abnormalities that can not be tested before the third trimester. you can google if you like.
yes, I have been pregnant and went through a third trimester resulting in a healthy baby girl who is now in her mid 30's. just because someone is pro choice does not mean they have never been pregnant or been a mother. if you want to be ridiculous I can use the same logic and ask have you ever been pregnant and got to a third trimester and not abort, why are you so anti choice, why would you force a pregnancy on a woman otherwise if you hadn't been through it?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
