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I agree with the original post. People believe they are middle class because they have bought their big houses, expensive cars and other toys and gadgets... but it's all on credit. And many are only a couple of paychecks from being broke!
IMO another contributing factors are the outsourcing of once well paid manufacturing jobs, where people without college degrees could make a good living. Those jobs appear to be gone forever. Now even those with a college degree have a hard time finding a well paying job in some parts of the country. When I look at our paper, there are lots of lower pay service jobs advertised, but few good paying jobs.
So true. In the hotel business I work with may college graduates working as front desk agents because the fields they chose do not pay well in the real world. For example; one young lady majored in the Arts however working in a museum paid $8.50 an hour, where now she makes $11.00. Other young people are going to Johnson and Whales University, all of them in Hotel Management. The truth about hotels is that you can start as a bellman and work your way up with hard work and dilligence without the expensive degree.
tcar509
So many aspects to this discussion, and since many have been discussed in previous threads I'll keep my point of view brief:
- Vehicles have substantially improved over the past 35-40 years, and have much more standard equipment. The technology changes are remarkable, a VW Beetle got 25 MPG on the highway and that was considered great, while today's standard sized vehicles with all of the bells and whistles get better gas mileage than the old Beetle.
- Houses have expanded significantly in size and features, with the new home sizes about double from that 1970 timeframe. Many homes didn't have air back then, and kitchens, baths, garages (not part of living space) and energy efficiency are significantly upgraded from the historical standards. I included a BLS home size link, you can see the changes by year and region.
Work has changed too, with the decline of production type of jobs. Many consider this to be a positive development, spending 40 years bolting on car doors may become a little boring.
I see the middle class slowly evaporating.. I see my generation.. myself included, having to take out lines of credit just to have the same or similar things I had growing up.
It's every parents wish that their child have better..or atlesat have it as good as we did right.. so here we are, now adults. We got a good job, we got the husband / wife. Need a car to get to work, need a house to live in right? WE're middle income, we should be able to buy a house and have a car.. Then whooo.. sticker shock!! The COST of goods have gotten SO high that we are FORCED to take out lines of credit to stay in the lifestyle we are accustomed to. And we're not talking lazy people here NOT working and STILL wanting these items.. we're talking families working like crazy .. eventhosue WITH kids have to work like crazy.. add daycare costs into the mix now too! IF we didn't take out these lines of credit to have these things then we'd be slipping BACKWARDS..because the costs of goods has gotten SO high and the companies that sell these goods profit margins have risen so much BECAUSE they KNOW that we will pay just to stay where we are and not slip backwards.
yes.. the middle class, especially in this credit crunch AND especially where I live.. is dissappearing fast!
I remember the 70's as well. My wife and I both went to the same college with help from the GI Bill ('Nam Vet) and her parents. Our first car was a gift of a '74 SAAB (luxurious 4 door sedan) that lasted 14 years and 270,00 miles. I also remember when gas cost 35 cents per gallon. After college I got a decent job and we lived fairly well while saving up a down payment for a house. This was better than I woulld have done as a toolmaker level machinest/welder/metal fabricator. By the end of the 70's the gasoline and house prices had risen so much that my job simply did not pay enough. Given that my wife has a History degree she was effectivly unemployable.
Almost all my work since then has fit this description. Fortunately we were able to get and eventually refinance an ARM for the condo we still live in to a low interest fixed rate shorter mortgage. This has helped a lot. I figure, but have not yet completely convinced my wife (40 years), that we will need to sell out of the northeast and move to a small southwestern town if we expect to live on my pension.
This is not what was implied by society, and told to me by my family, when I was in high school in the 60's. What we were told was that if we got a college degree we would be paid well enough to have the 2 br house in the suburbs and maybe be able to fill it with a couple of kids. The reality was - never happen - GI.
I have witnessed the hammering we, middle and lower class folk, have taken by a greed driven economy dominated by a rapacious military spending and a propensity for avaluekles international empire. The rich have gotten vastly richer and the rest of us have had our hopes dashed and our prosperity destroyed. I am more disraught by the betryal of the implied promise than by the lack of money.
BTW - my current "fleet' of two cars has a total resale value of about $2,500 because 12 and 16 year old cars with over 150,000 miles each just are not wotrth much. However ,repairing them costs less than replacing them, so they are still with us and will be for quite a while. Additionally, her '65 VW Beetle got over 35 mpg but was, admittedly, a death trap over 60 mph whenever it got that fast.
Last edited by GregW; 01-31-2008 at 08:06 AM..
Reason: added text -
Another factor to take into consideration is in the 70's many families had one car not two or three, very few households had a cable bill, many states did not require insurance on vehicles that were paid for, rural areas did not have a trash pick up bill, many people had wells not a water bill, spending on gifts was not out of control during the holidays, electric bills were far less because most homes did not have central air yet. No one had an internet bill. Gas was .55 to .89 cents a gallon through the 70's. Many people would now be living a "Better Lifestyle" were it not for the things they just have to have.
Don't forget though, in the 70's you still had lots of families that only one spouse employed, so the other could stay home with the kids, a car wasn't an absolute necessity, as it is now for the majority of people, both working. Maybe you didn't have a water bill, but as someone who had a well collapse on them once, having a well dug, costs PLENTY! Same goes for spetic tanks, you pay - one way or another.
True though, there as no cable or internet and no cell phones...and people ate at home more.
We were on city water, I was in Plantation Florida then, yes cell phones too and your right I ate at home more, I think a great deal of peoples problems are brought on by life style change, gadgets as I beleive someone else pointed out. Many more 2 parent families back then too so the added expence of seperate residence.
Don't forget though, in the 70's you still had lots of families that only one spouse employed, so the other could stay home with the kids, a car wasn't an absolute necessity, as it is now for the majority of people, both working. Maybe you didn't have a water bill, but as someone who had a well collapse on them once, having a well dug, costs PLENTY! Same goes for spetic tanks, you pay - one way or another.
True though, there as no cable or internet and no cell phones...and people ate at home more.
cell phones and internet have become a neccesity in business. If you don't have one you are considered a dinosaur and won't be doing much business and will find yourself kicked to the curb.. So internet and these technologies have become a neccessity.s
As a result of internet and cell phoens, business is done at a faster pace and more business is done because things have become more efficient in this technology age.. If you took an person from the 70's in atime machine and brought them to 2008 and forced them to use ONLY the technology available and tools available in the 70's, there's no way he'd keep up and he'd be out of a job.
Two cars are a neccesity.. even if one parent stays home.. as teh working parent is usually gone from 7am till 8 or 9pm working.. our work days have gottne mUCH longer.. hence the news on some channles now doesn't start till 7pm and families are eating dinners that late.. as opposed to the 5pm dinner times I grew up with!
We seem to be running faster..yet can't catch up to the cheese!! cause that's moving at a far faster pace (in case you didn't get my reference.. the cheese is the cost of all things).
Oh.. and i don't have central AC and my electric bill is $175 /monnth balanced billing.. could go up, could go down depending...
My husband and I share only one car, we have done so for many years and have managed to make it work. Our car a 96 ford escort has seen better days but she is paid for. We both have cell phones however they were a gift from a family member who has a great plan and we do not pay for them.
Here is our budget:
$2200.00 Income combined
- $850.00 Rent
- $85.00 Cable/Intnet
- $130.00 Electric
- $100.00 Auto Ins.
- $120.00 Credit Card payments (40.00 x 3 cards)
- $40.00 Life Insurance (quarterly at 160.00 a year)
- $120.00 Gas for car
- $350.00 Groceries
- $200.00 cigarettes (yes we know we should quit)
Leaves: $45.00 a month at the end of the month.
The only thing we are able to cut back on are the grocery bills.
One the credit cards are paid off we have more lee-way and they have been paid off in the past however this 96 ford escort of mine forces me to continue to use them. A newer car would up my auto ins and then I would have car payments. I see little left in my budget for that option right now.
tcar509
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