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I answered your questions. Now, please answer mine.
1. When did the Jews start to create "Hebrew Army"?
2. Did you hear about "Waqf land"? Can you please elaborate what do you know about it?
The reason I began asking the questions I did was to determine the level to which you would include both sides of the story. The exercise proved that you offer no quarter for balanced consideration toward what an entire Arab population (along with millions of others) cannot view as innocently as you do. Not by a long shot...
Accordingly, to what end is there to exchange more facts or information if/when the bias is so profound?
At the same time there are others in the wings here who as usual have only intent to harass.
I have explained before and I will explain perhaps this one last time, I understand the sad history of Jews being persecuted pretty much throughout the world pretty much throughout history. I understand the genesis of Zionism, and I can even relate to the want of a "homeland" where perhaps the threat of future persecution might be less possible, perhaps even made impossible.
However, I think as the world has progressed, more and more people are inclined toward leaving ancient rights and rituals in the past. Assimilation is preferred over segregation, secular government appears the better way over theocratic rule. Religious indoctrination and intolerance needs to give way to environments where these differences are accepted in peace and with respect for human rights, no matter how backward some parts of the world remain.
Call that mambo jumbo as you will...
We could go on forever trying to establish who in Palestine should be considered the lion or the lamb, the perpetrator of the ongoing violence or the victim, the more justified or least, what is defensive and what is offensive..., but regardless those assessments, what we have now are two lions both badly scarred and bleeding with little sign the fighting will stop anytime in the foreseeable future.
Personally, I think the Israelis who think the Palestinians will be beaten to the point of peaceful co-existence are sadly mistaken, because even if the Palestinians were pushed off the map, there is the whole rest of the Arab world surrounding Israel, and they are no more inclined to accept your version of history than most reasonable people can be expected to do objectively speaking.
If the future is dire for the Palestinian Arabs in this regard, so too I think the Israelis are doomed to a life without peace for their children. The whole world suffers along side for the obvious reasons, and no doubt the rest of the world is becoming less patient with the problem in general, as the French have indicated, as Obama has indicated, as the U.N. has long been indicating...
Too bad Jews and Arabs everywhere can't live more in harmony like perhaps the circumstances here in the United States allow, but of course that goes for lots of folks who can't seem to get along for one reason or another. What one might consider an effort toward better reason, another understands nothing but filthy hateful intent.
The reason I began asking the questions I did was to determine the level to which you would include both sides of the story. The exercise proved that you offer no quarter for balanced consideration toward what an entire Arab population (along with millions of others) cannot view as innocently as you do. Not by a long shot...
Accordingly, to what end is there to exchange more facts or information if/when the bias is so profound?
You asked me two questions.
1) What did Zionist leaders first do in order to establish support for the creation of Israel?
2) Why and how did Ben-Gurion set out to build a "Hebrew Army?" What were the Arabs in Palestine doing at this time and why?
My answers were:
1. Talking to the leaders of powerful countries and trying to get their support.
2.Arabs were trying to kill as many Jews they can, to prevent a Jewish state. That's the reason for trying to build a Hebrew Army. Self defense.
He did it by sending Jews to the British army to get military training and by maintaining the Haganah.
Please read about the Arab Revolt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E...t_in_Palestine
I answered your questions clearly, based on historical facts.
Now, you are refusing to answer mine and trying to cover it by some lame excuses. This is a dishonest behavior. I'm very disappointed.
You asked me two questions.
1) What did Zionist leaders first do in order to establish support for the creation of Israel?
2) Why and how did Ben-Gurion set out to build a "Hebrew Army?" What were the Arabs in Palestine doing at this time and why?
My answers were:
1. Talking to the leaders of powerful countries and trying to get their support.
2.Arabs were trying to kill as many Jews they can, to prevent a Jewish state. That's the reason for trying to build a Hebrew Army. Self defense.
He did it by sending Jews to the British army to get military training and by maintaining the Haganah.
Please read about the Arab Revolt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E...t_in_Palestine
I answered your questions clearly, based on historical facts.
Now, you are refusing to answer mine and trying to cover it by some lame excuses. This is a dishonest behavior. I'm very disappointed.
I am always sorry to disappoint, but on the other hand..., I have been disappointed as well and again as explained.
You answered my questions, yes, as acknowledged, but your answer(s) are sorely lacking -- disappointing, and/or again proof this exchange is pointless.
You have me forever wanting to ask if you can be serious...
Just look at my first question and your answer.
One as "knowledgeable" as you must surely know better than to think that first question is so simply answered with just that 13-word sentence of yours. What of the rest of the story? What of the simple basic history anyone can find with a simple quick look at Wikipedia? That's what you need to incorporate into your answers, your thinking, your consideration.
Again those are not my words, not my version of history, not my biased take on who did what and why.
In difference to your on going requests, however, (and because I do hate to disappoint people who don't seem ALL bad), can you give me a good reason to think there is a point in any further effort with any of this? I keep wondering.
Consider your rhetoric a moment and please do me the favor of pointing out what I wrote that you consider a "lame excuse." What have I done that you consider "dishonest behavior."
I could not have been more honest with that last comment!
Not an evil violent person wanting to "kill as many Jews they can," but rather a simple peasant Palestinian Arab with a son not yet 20 years old.
How do you explain the justification of British rule in the first place? Another legacy of history to be respected forever more? You tell me...
How do you justify the deals cut by Zionist leaders to get the protection and support they needed to prosecute the Zionist agenda? (Never mind the "unsanctioned" acts of terrorism).
On November 2, the British Foreign Secretary, Arthur Balfour, made his landmark Balfour Declaration of 1917, publicly expressing the government's view in favour of "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people", and specifically noting that its establishment must not "prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
IMPORTANT: why would the British include those protections for non-Jewish communities if there was no threat along those lines? How well have those protections been upheld?
Do you tell your young Arab Palestinian son that we Arabs had it coming to us? That we should gratefully accept whatever Israel now decides is right for all Palestinians?
Not an evil violent person wanting to "kill as many Jews they can," but rather a simple peasant Palestinian Arab with a son not yet 20 years old.
How do you explain the justification of British rule in the first place? Another legacy of history to be respected forever more? You tell me...
How do you justify the deals cut by Zionist leaders to get the protection and support they needed to prosecute the Zionist agenda? (Never mind the "unsanctioned" acts of terrorism).
On November 2, the British Foreign Secretary, Arthur Balfour, made his landmark Balfour Declaration of 1917, publicly expressing the government's view in favour of "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people", and specifically noting that its establishment must not "prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
IMPORTANT: why would the British include those protections for non-Jewish communities if there was no threat along those lines? How well have those protections been upheld?
Do you tell your young Arab Palestinian son that we Arabs had it coming to us? That we should gratefully accept whatever Israel now decides is right for all Palestinians?
Because...?
No, it's not going to be one side game. You asked me 2 questions, I answered them to the best of my knowledge. Now it's my turn to get answers to my 2 questions. After that I will gladly answer your next questions.
I am always sorry to disappoint, but on the other hand..., I have been disappointed as well and again as explained.
You answered my questions, yes, as acknowledged, but your answer(s) are sorely lacking -- disappointing, and/or again proof this exchange is pointless.
You have me forever wanting to ask if you can be serious...
Just look at my first question and your answer.
One as "knowledgeable" as you must surely know better than to think that first question is so simply answered with just that 13-word sentence of yours. What of the rest of the story? What of the simple basic history anyone can find with a simple quick look at Wikipedia? That's what you need to incorporate into your answers, your thinking, your consideration.
Again those are not my words, not my version of history, not my biased take on who did what and why.
In difference to your on going requests, however, (and because I do hate to disappoint people who don't seem ALL bad), can you give me a good reason to think there is a point in any further effort with any of this? I keep wondering.
Consider your rhetoric a moment and please do me the favor of pointing out what I wrote that you consider a "lame excuse." What have I done that you consider "dishonest behavior."
I could not have been more honest with that last comment!
The dishonest behavior is that you trying to avoid answering my questions, despite the fact that I answered yours.
The dishonest behavior is that you trying to avoid answering my questions, despite the fact that I answered yours.
Again you are entirely wrong!
I have "refused" nor "avoided" anything for any reasons you seem so inclined to assert. Do you always try to win "hearts and minds" that way?
I should play a little of your game and suggest you have been purposely coy with your answers, obviously avoiding the truth, clearly wanting to manage your agenda according to your own comforts rather than stay on point with mine...
Does that work for you?
I have explained myself thoroughly, and I am entirely honest -- wanting -- for you to provide both of us any sort of incentive to continue.
I don't know about you, but I need a reason to justify my time, because I have competing demands on my time to contend with.
Very sincerely.
PS: I hope you will address the above before you expect me to entertain the following any further...
My answers to your two questions:
1) Depends on how you define the "Hebrew Army." (Is this a trick question?).
I asked when Zionist leaders began to realize they would need such an army to further the Zionist agenda of bolstering and protecting Jewish immigration to Palestine despite Arab resistance, after WWI, before the birth of Israel, as Ben-Gurion specifically made reference to building the Hebrew Army for that purpose (and others) at that time.
Why can Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and more be Muslim countries....but Israel wanting to be a Jewish country is the end of the world?***************
Stop being a hypocrite. Start looking at facts.
Unfortunately and sadly we know the answer: anti-Judaism. Old wine in new bottles.
1) Depends on how you define the "Hebrew Army." (Is this a trick question?).
I asked when Zionist leaders began to realize they would need such an army to further the Zionist agenda of bolstering and protecting Jewish immigration to Palestine despite Arab resistance, after WWI, before the birth of Israel, as Ben-Gurion specifically made reference to building the Hebrew Army for that purpose (and others) at that time.
2) Waqf land? Not familiar.
Good night...
1. Thank you. Just a reminder, that the a "Hebrew Army" was needed not only for protecting immigrating Jews, but also for those who lived in "palestine" for centuries, and after the Arab massacres in Yafo (1921), Hebron (1928), the Arab Revolt (1936-1939) and other "mukauma" (you know what is it, right?) acts. So we agree that the Zionist realized it AFTER all those attacks. Ok. It's a progress.
2. I'm trying to understand, how on earth are people entering a debate without making some homework about the most basic terms? Not knowing what is waqf land is like not knowing what is segregation in a debate about racial relationships in USA, it's like not knowing about 2A when talking about gun control, It's like not knowing about Cervantes when talking about Spanish literature. Please be so kind and be prepared.
Homework for tomorrow:
"A waqf is a religious endowment bestowed by God. Consequently, "neither it, nor any part of it, should be squandered: Neither it, nor any part of it, should be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Muslim generations until Judgment Day."[1]"
Not an evil violent person wanting to "kill as many Jews they can," but rather a simple peasant Palestinian Arab with a son not yet 20 years old.
How do you explain the justification of British rule in the first place? Another legacy of history to be respected forever more? You tell me...
Now I will answer to your questions.
The usual justification. Power. They defeated the Turks and got control of the land in 1917. Like USA did with California, USSR with Kaliningrad, France with Reunion, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
How do you justify the deals cut by Zionist leaders to get the protection and support they needed to prosecute the Zionist agenda? (Never mind the "unsanctioned" acts of terrorism).
As the Brits were the rulers of the land, and it was recognized by the international community, they have the right to do whenever deals they want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
On November 2, the British Foreign Secretary, Arthur Balfour, made his landmark Balfour Declaration of 1917, publicly expressing the government's view in favour of "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people", and specifically noting that its establishment must not "prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
IMPORTANT: why would the British include those protections for non-Jewish communities if there was no threat along those lines? How well have those protections been upheld?
It was a failed attempt to convince make the Arabs to accept this declaration. The Brits did not understand that Arabs will not tolerate any non Muslim rule in "Palestine". The protections were great until the Arabs unleashed an active war against the Jews. One cannot start a war and hide behind some "protections".
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
Do you tell your young Arab Palestinian son that we Arabs had it coming to us? That we should gratefully accept whatever Israel now decides is right for all Palestinians?
Because...?
I would tell him that the Jews are bringing with them a lot of money, jobs, technology, and if we divide the country and live in peace with them, we will gain a lot.
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Disappointment...
