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View Poll Results: What is your ideal form of government?
A. Meritocracy 4 4.82%
B. Technocracy 2 2.41%
C. Totalitarian Police State 5 6.02%
D. Dulocracy 0 0%
E. Tyranny 1 1.20%
F. Oligarchy 1 1.20%
G. Libertarian 18 21.69%
H. Aristocracy 1 1.20%
I. Monarchy 1 1.20%
J. Republic 22 26.51%
K. Republican Form 7 8.43%
L. Democracy 10 12.05%
M. Kakistocracy 0 0%
N. Theocracy 1 1.20%
O. Other 10 12.05%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-19-2016, 11:56 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,624,265 times
Reputation: 18521

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
Who said anything about giving welfare? The Constitution says promote the general welfare. I take that to mean things like building roads or fighting disease.


Giving is not promoting and giving to certain groups of people, instead of things we all can enjoy. Creating opportunity(which is done by more freedom not less) for all individuals, is promoting the general welfare.

Slavery has many forms and what transpires today, is to keep the slaves from revolting.
The 16th Amendment, put us all into bondage of the Government. The Federal Reserve put us all in debt to pay for that government, the 16th amendment forces us to pay for it..... Even if government is our enemy and a bully. Your & my ass is owned by the government to pay the debt they create.
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Old 03-19-2016, 06:48 PM
 
15,063 posts, read 6,175,095 times
Reputation: 5124
Other...a government that is not man-made but rather run by God Himself. Any other kind of government is flawed.
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Old 03-19-2016, 07:21 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,624,265 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
Let me get this straight: Southern whites held blacks in bondage, brutalizing them and denying them every right. And you think that Southern states were unfairly treated because the had to pay a tax on slaves, and only got 3/5 representation for them? Outrageous!

Hey, that was the Northern states idea, before the Union was made.
Thus it was called a compromise.
There would not have been a Civil war, had the North not made the slaves only 3/5ths of a man.
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Old 03-20-2016, 05:58 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,624,265 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
Other...a government that is not man-made but rather run by God Himself. Any other kind of government is flawed.

Actually, that is N. Theocracy
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Old 03-20-2016, 09:43 AM
 
13,601 posts, read 4,932,646 times
Reputation: 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
. Your & my ass is owned by the government to pay the debt they create.
Who's "they"? Ever hear of govt "of, by and for the people"?
We are the government, we created the debt and if we don't pay it off our children will have to.

For example, when you voted for George Bush, you (unwittingly) voted for the Iraq War, which cost roughly $10,000 for every taxpayer in the US.
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Old 03-20-2016, 09:53 AM
 
13,601 posts, read 4,932,646 times
Reputation: 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Hey, that was the Northern states idea, before the Union was made.
Thus it was called a compromise.
There would not have been a Civil war, had the North not made the slaves only 3/5ths of a man.
There would not have been a Civil War had the South not made slaves less than a man in the first place. The South made slaves 0% of a man for the purpose of civil rights, but yet wanted them counted as 100% of a man for purpose of apportioning representatives. The compromise just illustrated how ludicrous the situation was. The North may be faulted for the compromise, but that doesn't absolve the South from guilt for the abominable institution that led to that compromise in the first place.
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Old 03-20-2016, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,205,095 times
Reputation: 16747
UNITED POWER
-V-
DIVIDED WEAKNESS
=\=\=\=\=\=
There is endless controversy over the interpretation of the Preamble, and what constitutes "General Welfare".
Is it socialism?
Should government "take" from one to "give" to another?

That is inconsistent with the jobs defined in the Declaration of Independence:
Job #1 = secure (endowed) rights, and
Job #2 = govern those who consent.

Regardless of one’s ethnicity, parentage, philosophy, or ideology, there is one way to clear up confusion - respect for the endowed rights of the individual.

Those who are harmless productive people who meet their needs without preying on others are not “the problem.”

Those who are harmful, destructive, predatory people who meet their needs by preying on others IS “the problem.”

Under America’s founding document, the Declaration of Independence, America’s governments were to be instituted to SECURE endowed rights - not DESTROY them, via restriction, regulation nor taxation.

The whole purpose of forming a union was to cooperate in the protection of property rights from attack by predators, foreign or domestic. When the government was infiltrated by predators, the nature of the government changed from defending property owners to preying upon them.

How?
__ Socialist thievery - taking from one to give to another
__ Abolition of liberty - restricting freedom regardless of the consequences
__ Disarming the people - reducing their ability to defend against predators

No matter what excuse or rationalization, when the servant government makes the people into its servant, something is amiss. Ironically, the law makes it clear that such reversal is due to CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED.

__ National socialism (FICA) is 100% voluntary
__ Subjugation via citizenship is 100% voluntary
__ Civic obligations and duties are 100% voluntary

Since consent is the basis for most if not all abuses by servant government, there is no remedy via the ballot, nor election of a statesman. No partisan political party can “fix” the problem created by the wholesale abandonment of the one restraint upon democrazy - the republican form.

To illustrate - if 97% withdrew consent, and only 3% of the population were civic minded servants dedicated to cooperate in securing rights, the resulting government would lose 97% (or more) of its revenues, as well as 97% of the people to govern / rule. What abuses can such a diminished government get into?

With only 3% to govern and a minuscule budget to “secure endowed rights,” the lean and mean government would be restrained from mischief - as the Founders envisioned.

It is entirely reasonable for a people to unite in respecting property rights, as in “What’s yours is yours, what’s mine is mine, do not trespass upon the person, liberty or property of another.”

But when society splits into “Takers” versus “Makers,” nothing will prevent its collapse and messy dissolution. Tolerance of predators is unmerciful to their next victim.
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Old 03-20-2016, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,205,095 times
Reputation: 16747
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
Other...a government that is not man-made but rather run by God Himself. Any other kind of government is flawed.
Ironically, that is an oxymoron.
IF God grants Man free will, He gave up ruling Mankind.
Can't have it both ways.
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Old 03-20-2016, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,205,095 times
Reputation: 16747
FWIW - all the goals of the Libertarian Party platform are fait accompli under the REPUBLICAN FORM OF GOVERNMENT.

LIBERTARIAN GOALS ARE UNATTAINABLE
IF ONE IS IN THE DEMOCRATIC FORM

If you look at the Libertarian Platform through the eyes of the "Republican Form", where the sovereign people exercise natural and personal liberty, while not burdened with the socialist impositions nor the civic duties of the subject citizens, it's a fait accompli...

Sovereign Americans under the republican form have all their rights and liberties intact.

But you cannot restore your status in the republican form of government, by participation in the democratic form. Nor can you restore surrendered rights by giving consent to their surrender (as a prerequisite for being a "Libertarian" voter). So the Libertarian platform is an impossible goal for Libertarians to achieve by voting Libertarian.

Platform | Libertarian Party

Remember, in American law there are only two statuses:
  • Sovereign (American nationals / free inhabitants domiciled upon private property), and
  • Subject (Citizens, residents, paupers, denizens, etc, residing at residences, and obligated to obey and serve).
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,205,095 times
Reputation: 16747
In the poll, it is alarming that so few chose "republican form."
But not 1 in 100,000 Americans can accurately define it, nor name its source.
Chalk up another win for the world's greatest propaganda ministry and their eradication of the memory of it.
. . .
“The republican is the only form of government which is not eternally at open or secret war with the Rights of mankind.”
- - - Thomas Jefferson
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson

“I firmly believe that the benevolent Creator designed the republican Form of Government for Man.”
- - - Samuel Adams;
Statement of (14 April 1785), quoted in The Writings of Samuel Adams (1904) edited by Harry A. Cushing
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Samuel_Adams

"What I do say is that no man is good enough to govern another man without that other's consent. I say this is the leading principle, the sheet-anchor of American republicanism. Our Declaration of Independence says: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
- - - Abraham Lincoln, Speech at Peoria, Illinois (1854)
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Abraham_lincoln
Remember, people have rights and powers - under the republican form.
Citizens have privileges and immunities - under the democratic form. But their consent waived endowed rights, because mandatory civic duties abrogate them.

More info:
//www.city-data.com/forum/42989185-post47.html
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