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Their assets were unfrozen we did not "give' them money.
Of course we gave them money! We gave them access to their money plus the ability to sell their oil to a broader market. Whether it was their money or not does not make a difference; the net effect is that they have more funds available to buy weapons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight
Good, from now on we will pass judgement on soldiers captured and leave them behind before we investigate. We already released several hundred from GITMO and 5 is an issue?
One for five is not a great deal - you have to take math! Using the GITMO release as justification is also not a great argument - many of us disagreed with that decision. You tell me how many of those released prisoners are now US supporters?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight
Iran doesn't like us this deal didn't change that but it was a first step.
The first step to what: Telling the world we have a fool for a leader! That is how Iranian leadership is treating the deal.
Of course we gave them money! We gave them access to their money plus the ability to sell their oil to a broader market. Whether it was their money or not does not make a difference; the net effect is that they have more funds available to buy weapons.
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We unfroze their money
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye
One for five is not a great deal - you have to take math! Using the GITMO release as justification is also not a great argument - many of us disagreed with that decision. You tell me how many of those released prisoners are now US supporters?
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Yes some returned to fight us, so why were they not convicted.
Several hundred released under both presidents, more than 5 released in the last few months. so your preference would be to leave him behind based on what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye
The first step to what: Telling the world we have a fool for a leader! That is how Iranian leadership is treating the deal.
The specific nuclear arms deal is working, are the other 5 nations that agreed to this also fools or is it just the GOP.
Did they have use of ‘their’ money before we unfroze it – NO! So we gave them that money plus new sources of money from the sale of their oil. You do know that there was a reason/s that we froze their money. And, even today, their attitudes have not changed that much from the time we froze their assets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight
Yes some returned to fight us, so why were they not convicted.
Several hundred released under both presidents, more than 5 released in the last few months. so your preference would be to leave him behind based on what?
According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_former_Guantanamo_Bay_detainees_alleged_t o_have_returned_to_terrorism):
"According to a September 2014 report by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, in July 2014 of the 620 detainees transferred out of Guantanamo, 107 have been "confirmed of re-engaging," and 77 are "suspected of re-engaging." in terrorist or insurgent activities.[13]"
So we have approximately one in four released prisoners that go back into terrorism. Now; perhaps you can tell me how many terrorist were active in the latest Brussels's attack? It did not take 184 which is what we suspected went back into terrorism after they were released from GITMO; it was only one small group. Brussels will never be the same again; they lost some of the freedom they knew. So you can argue with me that three fourths of the released prisoners did not go back into terrorism; but that will not do the victims of these released prisoners any good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight
The specific nuclear arms deal is working, are the other 5 nations that agreed to this also fools or is it just the GOP.
Does it make any difference how many countries agreed to the deal? Especially since Iran has not changed their mind about our Country – they still hate us. If you are a sworn enemy you find ways around any agreement. Heck, we cannot even find every tunnel coming into our Country from Mexico – let alone another government that wants to hide nuclear material. Some of the countries that agreed to the deal want to make other deals with Iran; like arms sales.
You think this is the start of the Golden years of of peace – think again. What is this crap about GOP – they did not make the deal; it came from the WH. Your trying to blame another party because things don’t look like they are going well! You must have a degree in political science!
Did they have use of ‘their’ money before we unfroze it – NO! So we gave them that money plus new sources of money from the sale of their oil. You do know that there was a reason/s that we froze their money. And, even today, their attitudes have not changed that much from the time we froze their assets.
According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_former_Guantanamo_Bay_detainees_alleged_t o_have_returned_to_terrorism):
"According to a September 2014 report by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, in July 2014 of the 620 detainees transferred out of Guantanamo, 107 have been "confirmed of re-engaging," and 77 are "suspected of re-engaging." in terrorist or insurgent activities.[SIZE=2][13][/SIZE]"
So we have approximately one in four released prisoners that go back into terrorism. Now; perhaps you can tell me how many terrorist were active in the latest Brussels's attack? It did not take 184 which is what we suspected went back into terrorism after they were released from GITMO; it was only one small group. Brussels will never be the same again; they lost some of the freedom they knew. So you can argue with me that three fourths of the released prisoners did not go back into terrorism; but that will not do the victims of these released prisoners any good.
There were over 700 detainees in GITMO and 100 remain and you are questioning the release of 5 detainees for a soldier that was captured?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye
Does it make any difference how many countries agreed to the deal? Especially since Iran has not changed their mind about our Country – they still hate us. If you are a sworn enemy you find ways around any agreement. Heck, we cannot even find every tunnel coming into our Country from Mexico – let alone another government that wants to hide nuclear material. Some of the countries that agreed to the deal want to make other deals with Iran; like arms sales.
You think this is the start of the Golden years of of peace – think again. What is this crap about GOP – they did not make the deal; it came from the WH. Your trying to blame another party because things don’t look like they are going well! You must have a degree in political science!
Yes it is important because the world leaders of 5 major powers thought this was a good deal.
There were over 700 detainees in GITMO and 100 remain and you are questioning the release of 5 detainees for a soldier that was captured?
I am questioning anybody that does not know how to negotiate. Ignoring the fact that Bergdahl was a deserter that cost the lives of American soldiers trying to recue him; our Country normally does not negotiate for prisoners. Then, even if we did, we don't trade five for one - especially if those five can take more lives. This is just not good business - it's foolish at the very least!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight
Yes it is important because the world leaders of 5 major powers thought this was a good deal.
Some of those other countries would also like to be number one. Just because they agree sometimes; does not mean that they feel this decision is in America's best interest. They can agree with us for their own selfish reasons; like arms sales.
So far very little time has elapsed since the accord. All we know is that Iran has no respect for the West. It is hard to predict the future, but when one hates another one; there is a very good chance they will not play by the rules. My feeling is, even if you found out that this accord did not stop Iran from acquiring a nuclear stockpile; you would blame it on the GOP and state Obama had nothing to do with it!
I am questioning anybody that does not know how to negotiate. Ignoring the fact that Bergdahl was a deserter that cost the lives of American soldiers trying to recue him; our Country normally does not negotiate for prisoners. Then, even if we did, we don't trade five for one - especially if those five can take more lives. This is just not good business - it's foolish at the very least!
We don't establish desertion before the fact based on news media reports, it's done in a court.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye
Some of those other countries would also like to be number one. Just because they agree sometimes; does not mean that they feel this decision is in America's best interest. They can agree with us for their own selfish reasons; like arms sales.
So far very little time has elapsed since the accord. All we know is that Iran has no respect for the West. It is hard to predict the future, but when one hates another one; there is a very good chance they will not play by the rules. My feeling is, even if you found out that this accord did not stop Iran from acquiring a nuclear stockpile; you would blame it on the GOP and state Obama had nothing to do with it!
Iran's poor behavior is a separate issue from the nuclear deal, hopefully they will change over time.
Getting his many countries to agree is tremendously complicated and more than just Obama but he was part of it.
I have not heard one good alternative to this but that has been discussed ad nauseam.
I don't want to go to war with Iran because Obama's corporate partners want to do business over there. It's always about using our government to advance his Wall St interests with Obama.
That's not what he said. AT all.
who wants to do business in an unstable country with religious fanatical leaders who fund terrorists, launch ballistic missiles and call for the genocide of a country every day all over social media and otherwise. THAT'S what he meant. and he's not wrong.
Obama is so naive. Does he really expect Iran to become like the West?
Obama appears naive as his agenda is different than American mainstream.
This prez has done more to destroy the economy, divide and weaken this nation than any declared enemy in our existence. All planned, like a military boot camp, break down and build back up. Karl Ikhan article , don't rebuild, obliterate.
If obama actually told us where he is taking us, there would be a revolt. This master of words, sentence and punctuation is careful to create nebulous, interpretive and tell outright lies and does so only with the blessing and critical aid of the mainstream media.
This is the guy who lost 500 mill$ taxpayer dollars on one green energy company whose investment potential was nil. and in hindsight, obama said the loss was a good investment. That is not a stupid naive man. That is a man on a covert mission, cover provided by the former people's watchdog, now government lap dog press and journalists. No one can be that stupid, unqualified, naive and educated.
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