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The study that Thompson criticized was never intended to be a "vaxxed vs. unvaxxed" study.
No such claim was made. Bill Thompson criticized the throwing out of a dataset that showed a 7-fold increase in the likelihood of autism in African American males who received the MMR at a certain age range.
The film footage included this House Government Reform and Oversight Committee hearing in 2012 where Bill Posey asks Dr. Coleen Boyle whether there was ever a "vaxxed vs. unvaxxed" study done, and she confirms there never was:
Get that? No data was destroyed! Thompson says so himself!
In the documentary, Brian Hooker states he was led to hard copies that were preserved by Thompson in a deliberate location (after the asserted destruction of data).
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
The criticism that the study discarded data from African American subjects just doesn’t hold water. No data was discarded. For the subjects who were linked to birth certificates, the researchers performed additional analyses. In this light, I see a careful observational study that assessed the role of potential confounders.
Then there's no reason for the CDC's Senior Scientist Dr. Thompson to be calling foul, is there. No reason for him to subsequently write all the way up the chain of command to the top about it.
I won't blame the vaccines because I am not a scientist. I can just tell you that my son was normal until he took the rest of his shots at age 2. He was diagnosed at 4 as autistic. Something did it, because we could watch him regress.
That is a typical story for autism. The symptoms start at about the same ages that children are being vaccinated. Since the vaccination rate in the US is high, it is a statistical certainty that some children will have their autism become apparent at the same time that a vaccine was received. That does not mean the vaccine caused the autism. The evidence that vaccines do not cause autism is massive.
Evidence is also accumulating that autism is genetic. Many genes have been identified already, and researchers are looking for more. In about 10 to 20% of cases of autism, the genetic basis can already be determined. The genetics involved is complex. It's not like some diseases that result from a mutation in a single gene. Multiple genes are in play, and it may take having several of them at once to produce the constellation of symptoms we call autism.
If vaccines were to cause autism. it would be necessary for there to be an explanation for such things as why autism runs in families, why female dizygotic (from different eggs) co-twins are less likely to have autism than male co-twins, and why a short interval between births is associated with an increased risk of autism. If vaccines caused autism, we would also have to explain why unvaccinated younger siblings of autistic children still develop autism.
Look at it like this. Take a hypothetical child who has epilepsy but has not yet had his first seizure. Neither his parents nor his pediatrician has any reason to suspect that he is epileptic.
Suppose that his mother feeds him broccoli for the very first time in his life. Immediately after eating the broccoli, the child has a seizure.
I think few of us would say that eating broccoli causes epilepsy. In this case, the child already had epilepsy; he just had not had his first seizure yet. The broccoli had nothing to do with the seizure. In a similar fashion, children who already have autism may have the signs and symptoms identified after being vaccinated. In fact, however, when home videos of children with autism are reviewed, it is often apparent that the signs really were there before any vaccines were given.
The body of scientific evidence about vaccines tells us that children who get vaccines are no more likely to have autism than children who are not vaccinated. The fact that the onset of symptoms of autism happens after a vaccine is given does not prove the vaccine causes autism.
Scientist Dr.Temple Grandin has high functioning autism. She is participating in studies of brains like hers. Scans show that her brain is wired differently from so called neurotypical brains, dramatically different. Changes like that are unlikely to happen from a vaccine.
That is a typical story for autism. The symptoms start at about the same ages that children are being vaccinated. Since the vaccination rate in the US is high, it is a statistical certainty that some children will have their autism become apparent at the same time that a vaccine was received. That does not mean the vaccine caused the autism. The evidence that vaccines do not cause autism is massive.
Evidence is also accumulating that autism is genetic. Many genes have been identified already, and researchers are looking for more. In about 10 to 20% of cases of autism, the genetic basis can already be determined. The genetics involved is complex. It's not like some diseases that result from a mutation in a single gene. Multiple genes are in play, and it may take having several of them at once to produce the constellation of symptoms we call autism.
If vaccines were to cause autism. it would be necessary for there to be an explanation for such things as why autism runs in families, why female dizygotic (from different eggs) co-twins are less likely to have autism than male co-twins, and why a short interval between births is associated with an increased risk of autism. If vaccines caused autism, we would also have to explain why unvaccinated younger siblings of autistic children still develop autism.
Look at it like this. Take a hypothetical child who has epilepsy but has not yet had his first seizure. Neither his parents nor his pediatrician has any reason to suspect that he is epileptic.
Suppose that his mother feeds him broccoli for the very first time in his life. Immediately after eating the broccoli, the child has a seizure.
I think few of us would say that eating broccoli causes epilepsy. In this case, the child already had epilepsy; he just had not had his first seizure yet. The broccoli had nothing to do with the seizure. In a similar fashion, children who already have autism may have the signs and symptoms identified after being vaccinated. In fact, however, when home videos of children with autism are reviewed, it is often apparent that the signs really were there before any vaccines were given.
The body of scientific evidence about vaccines tells us that children who get vaccines are no more likely to have autism than children who are not vaccinated. The fact that the onset of symptoms of autism happens after a vaccine is given does not prove the vaccine causes autism.
Scientist Dr.Temple Grandin has high functioning autism. She is participating in studies of brains like hers. Scans show that her brain is wired differently from so called neurotypical brains, dramatically different. Changes like that are unlikely to happen from a vaccine.
That's great suzy_q2010. Compare 3 potent insults to the immune system all at the same time, that commonly enough results within hours to severe neurological impairment to susceptible phenotypes, with...eating broccoli.
I do not think you even understand what the term "straw man" means.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
The study that Thompson criticized was never intended to be a "vaxxed vs. unvaxxed" study.
No such claim was made. Bill Thompson criticized the throwing out of a dataset that showed a 7-fold increase in the likelihood of autism in African American males who received the MMR at a certain age range.
What do you not understand about the fact that no data was thrown out?
It's there in the original study, others have reviewed it and concur with the conclusions of the original authors.
And even Thompson does not allege that there was a "7-fold" increase in the AA boys.
Quote:
The film footage included this House Government Reform and Oversight Committee hearing in 2012 where Bill Posey asks Dr. Coleen Boyle whether there was ever a "vaxxed vs. unvaxxed" study done, and she confirms there never was.
The study that is under discussion was deliberately not a "vaxxed vs. unvaxxed" study. That does not mean such a study has never been done. it is not necessary to do a double blind controlled study to get that information. In addition, it would be unethical to do such a study with a vaccine already shown to be safe and effective. Recruiting participants would be impossible because parents who understand that the risk of vaccine preventable diseases is many times greater than the risk of vaccines would not want their children to not be vaccinated.
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Get that? No data was destroyed! Thompson says so himself!
In the documentary, Brian Hooker states he was led to hard copies that were preserved by Thompson in a deliberate location (after the asserted destruction of data).
No data was destroyed. Thompson said so himself. CDC has all the data. Any qualified scientist can get it. It is not released to laypersons because the average layperson would not know what to do with it and also because it contains the protected health information of real live children. I take it you have never heard of HIPAA.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
"The criticism that the study discarded data from African American subjects just doesn’t hold water. No data was discarded. For the subjects who were linked to birth certificates, the researchers performed additional analyses. In this light, I see a careful observational study that assessed the role of potential confounders."
Then there's no reason for the CDC's Senior Scientist Dr. Thompson to be calling foul, is there. No reason for him to subsequently write all the way up the chain of command to the top about it.
No, there is no reason at all. In fact, it is curious why he waited ten years to say anything about it at all.
This explains the documents that Thompson gave Posey:
That's great suzy_q2010. Compare 3 potent insults to the immune system all at the same time, that commonly enough results within hours to severe neurological impairment to susceptible phenotypes, with...eating broccoli.
If you agree with the blogger you posted the link to, then why are you concerned about autism at all? the thesis of the piece is that autism is part of a range of neurodiversity and should not be eliminated but embraced, even if it causes severe disability.
I do not think you even understand what the term "straw man" means.
Near the top of #10 you set up Thompson in a falsely constructed diarama, only to proceed to argue about it, beginning here: "The study that Thompson criticized was never intended to be a 'vaxxed vs. unvaxxed' study." That's a straw man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Autism does not happen "within hours".
Again, where do you see anyone writing it does? Gross, diffuse damage to the organs manifests in markedly different physical ways over the duration of the injury, beginning with acute symptoms that are distinct from those longer term, as with conditions at the cellular level (your "rewiring," I believe). In the first few hours many of these people are fighting seizures inflicted by inflammatory responses to foreign combinations of substances.
By the same token not all of the spectrum is caused by the same hazards.
Near the top of #10 you set up Thompson in a falsely constructed diarama, only to proceed to argue about it, beginning here: "The study that Thompson criticized was never intended to be a 'vaxxed vs. unvaxxed' study." That's a straw man.
You are the one who brought up 'vaxxed vs. unvaxxed'. I merely responded to your post. You said, "A CDC official is on record as telling a Congressional committee that a '' vaxxed vs. unvaxxed study was never conducted."
The first part of my post showed that no data was destroyed, as Thompson himself confirmed. If that placed Thompson in a "diarama" then that's where he belongs.
Quote:
Again, where do you see anyone writing it does? Gross, diffuse damage to the organs manifests in markedly different physical ways over the duration of the injury, beginning with acute symptoms that are distinct from those longer term, as with conditions at the cellular level (your "rewiring," I believe). In the first few hours many of these people are fighting seizures inflicted by inflammatory responses to foreign combinations of substances.
By the same token not all of the spectrum is caused by the same hazards.
The kind of wiring demonstrated in Dr. Grandin's scans is most likely programmed embryologically. You know, that thing that genes do.
We know what the extremely rare neurologic reactions to vaccines are, and those reactions are not autism.
Seizures after vaccines are usually febrile seizures, not caused by the vaccine itself but fever which is a natural response to stimulation of the immune system. Febrile seizures are benign and do not cause permanent neurologic damage.
However, there is now evidence that some seizures blamed on vaccines may be - wait for it - due to a genetic mutation and not the vaccine.
"But “Vaxxed” never tries to demystify its wildest insinuations. While the pharmaceutical industry is nobody's idea of a perfect system, the idea of a grand conspiracy to make a dime off MMR vaccines while creating widespread autism sounds like much ado about nothing. There's a lot of Shakespearean hubris at the root of "Vaxxed," a tale of sound and fury signifying nothing but its own homegrown idiocy."
I don't watch conspiracy theory movies as they are fraught with half truths and what ifs.
Must miss.
I take it that you avoid network news then.
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