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So, you're saying that under nothing but free market economic pressure, any conservative Christian wedding photographer will agree to photograph homosexual weddings "Every freaking time" and that if he doesn't his business will go under "every freaking time?"
Religions have nothing to do with business, so that's a Red Herring.
Oh really? MLK sure wasn't very happy about Barry Goldwater back then:
On social and economic issues, Mr. Goldwater represented an unrealistic conservatism that was totally out of touch with the realities of the twentieth century. The issue of poverty compelled the attention of all citizens of our country. Senator Goldwater had neither the concern nor the comprehension necessary to grapple with this problem of poverty in the fashion that the historical moment dictated. On the urgent issue of civil rights, Senator Goldwater represented a philosophy that was morally indefensible and socially suicidal. While not himself a racist, Mr. Goldwater articulated a philosophy which gave aid and comfort to the racist. His candidacy and philosophy would serve as an umbrella under which extremists of all stripes would stand. In the light of these facts and because of my love for America, I had no alternative but to urge every Negro and white person of goodwill to vote against Mr. Goldwater and to withdraw support from any Republican candidate that did not publicly disassociate himself from Senator Goldwater and his philosophy.*
*From The Autobiography of Martin Luther King, ed., Clayborne Carson (Time Warner, 1998), 247. See also, Martin Luther King Jr., Where Do We Go from Here: Chaos or Community? (Harper & Row, 1967).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
It's true that Goldwater himself was not a racist, but appeared to believe this as posted in another current thread:
The failure of this conclusion is that the variables of the free market do not make it an algebraic equation. For instance, business owners may well be willing to limit market diversity in order to achieve business goals that can result in greater profit.
For instance, a product patina of "exclusivity" can permit a business owner to charge more than enough more to customers seeking that exclusivity than he loses in customer base.
Goldwater deliberately refused to see that fact, rationalizing his actions on pure free market ideology.
Sounds like Mr. Goldwater was walking around with ideological blinders.
So basically Mr. Goldwater could articulate a philosophy, something like 'free market fundamentalism,' which was not founded in reality, defended the indefensible & which gave aid & comforted the white supremacists of his time? All that & claim not to be racist himself? This sounds all too familiar when compared to certain present day ideologues.
Sounds like Mr. Goldwater was walking around with ideological blinders.
So basically Mr. Goldwater could articulate a philosophy, something like 'free market fundamentalism,' which was not founded in reality, defended the indefensible & which gave aid & comforted the white supremacists of his time? All that & claim not to be racist himself? This sounds all too familiar when compared to certain present day ideologues.
I'll give Goldwater credit for at least not being racist in his own policies. In an age that segregation was perfectly legal, Goldwater desegregated his own businesses. As an Air Force general, he pushed seriously to make desegregation in the service de facto as well as de jure. He did the same thing in the federal government as a senator. So he has plenty of evidence of not being personally racist, but essentially his position was, "I disagree with your racism, but I'll defend to the death your right to be racist."
Oh, and Goldwater also said:
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”
I'll give Goldwater credit for at least not being racist in his own policies. In an age that segregation was perfectly legal, Goldwater desegregated his own businesses. As an Air Force general, he pushed seriously to make desegregation in the service de facto as well as de jure. He did the same thing in the federal government as a senator. So he has plenty of evidence of not being personally racist, but essentially his position was, "I disagree with your racism, but I'll defend to the death your right to be racist."
& I give YOU credit for a thoughtful analysis of Mr. Goldwater, the 'good, bad & ugly' so to speak. My personal favorite 'Goldwaterism' is here:
"The oldest philosophy in the world is conservatism, and I go clear back to the first Greeks. ... When you say 'radical right' today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye."
The whole article is rather nice. In it, he describes his thoughtviews on gay rights (in the military: 'you don't have to BE straight to shoot straight') & on other issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
Oh, and Goldwater also said:
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”
My biggest issue with him is his failure to identify 'free market fundamentalism' (still in vogue today) as a religion.
Religions have nothing to do with business, so that's a Red Herring.
Religion and other personal/moral proclivities are always factors in the business equation, which is why it's never as neatly algebraic in the real world as "free market fundamentalists" like to pretend it is.
I'll give Goldwater credit for at least not being racist in his own policies. In an age that segregation was perfectly legal, Goldwater desegregated his own businesses. As an Air Force general, he pushed seriously to make desegregation in the service de facto as well as de jure. He did the same thing in the federal government as a senator. So he has plenty of evidence of not being personally racist, but essentially his position was, "I disagree with your racism, but I'll defend to the death your right to be racist."
Oh, and Goldwater also said:
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”
You're correct on that. But when the rubber hit the road, he didn't do the right thing. He voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
You're correct on that. But when the rubber hit the road, he didn't do the right thing. He voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Mr. Goldwater's rigid adherence to an already deflated ideology disconnected from reality imprisoned him.
Even more baffling & even more devoid of reality, there are present day disciples of the same ideology who have stated they would have voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 if they had the chance. Year 2016.
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