Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think it's human nature to want to work and contribute. How many people would prefer to tell their friends that they don't do anything for a living, compared to being a prestigious police officer or Doctor?Most would pick the higher road (if they could), I think.
You haven't been watching the news for the past few years, have you?
Charles Murray's proposal sounds interesting to me.
Quote:
In my version, every American citizen age 21 and older would get a $13,000 annual grant deposited electronically into a bank account in monthly installments. Three thousand dollars must be used for health insurance (a complicated provision I won’t try to explain here), leaving every adult with $10,000 in disposable annual income for the rest of their lives.
People can make up to $30,000 in earned income without losing a penny of the grant. After $30,000, a graduated surtax reimburses part of the grant, which would drop to $6,500 (but no lower) when an individual reaches $60,000 of earned income. Why should people making good incomes retain any part of the UBI? Because they will be losing Social Security and Medicare, and they need to be compensated.
The UBI is to be financed by getting rid of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, Supplemental Security Income, housing subsidies, welfare for single women and every other kind of welfare and social-services program, as well as agricultural subsidies and corporate welfare. As of 2014, the annual cost of a UBI would have been about $200 billion cheaper than the current system. By 2020, it would be nearly a trillion dollars cheaper.
The idea of massively shrinking the size of the federal government and decreasing waste, bureaucracy and market distortions is appealing. Less money sloshing around in and spilling out of Okun's leaky buckets. Less penalization of hard work and good decisions. More transparency on how taxes are being spent. Probably less fraud. Progressives would have fewer excuses to make for people. More entrepreneurship.
However, I'm skeptical of how it might actually play out.
Too many people might drop out of the labor force.
People might vote for Bernie-style politicians who promise them unsustainable increases in the UBI.
Progressives might not be so willing to relinquish control and stop lording over everyone's lives.
Some Social Security recipients would have to take a sizable pay cut.
It would have to be limited American citizens, no waves of immigrants flooding into the country to take advantage of it (progressives might have a problem with this one too).
Here we go again with the moral/logical consistency that should define every person.
(Sigh)
Fine then. Give it to me. More porn and candy to buy!!!
Well you're just the perfect example of why we can't have people choosing for themselves how they spend their guaranteed income. There oughta be a law against spending it irresponsibly. Our wise representatives will decide what we're allowed to spend our allowance on. We can make our own money and decisions when we're grown ups.
Well you're just the perfect example of why we can't have people choosing for themselves how they spend their guaranteed income. There oughta be a law against spending it irresponsibly. Our wise representatives will decide what we're allowed to spend our allowance on. We can make our own money and decisions when we're grown ups.
You're right. I lost my head.
Only the omnipotent and infallible government can decide how to spend the money, how tall a fence on my property should be, and what time I can put my garbage at the curb the night before pick-up.
Thanks for reminding me. I almost started thinking on my own. I pay taxes so the government can do my thinking for me.
Charles Murray's proposal sounds interesting to me.
Quote:
In my version, every American citizen age 21 and older would get a $13,000 annual grant deposited electronically into a bank account in monthly installments. Three thousand dollars must be used for health insurance (a complicated provision I won’t try to explain here), leaving every adult with $10,000 in disposable annual income for the rest of their lives.
People can make up to $30,000 in earned income without losing a penny of the grant. After $30,000, a graduated surtax reimburses part of the grant, which would drop to $6,500 (but no lower) when an individual reaches $60,000 of earned income. Why should people making good incomes retain any part of the UBI? Because they will be losing Social Security and Medicare, and they need to be compensated.
The UBI is to be financed by getting rid of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, Supplemental Security Income, housing subsidies, welfare for single women and every other kind of welfare and social-services program, as well as agricultural subsidies and corporate welfare. As of 2014, the annual cost of a UBI would have been about $200 billion cheaper than the current system. By 2020, it would be nearly a trillion dollars cheaper.
His math is all wrong.
There is approximately 251,174,000 million Americans age 21 and up.
$3.265 TRILLION annually is what is proposal would cost.
The 79 Welfare programs cost $1.3 TRILLION including SSI, HUD subsidies, Food Stamps, TAN-F and other programs. Social Security and Medicare taxes currently yield $1.02 TRILLION annually.
That puts him $1+ TRILLION short, and agricultural subsidies and corporate welfare will not make up that $1 TRILLION.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EugeneOnegin
The idea of massively shrinking the size of the federal government and decreasing waste, bureaucracy and market distortions is appealing.
The federal government wields massive power, control and influence over the People and the States with those programs, so the federal government would never surrender them.
How many retro gem business's from shifty lay about potheads could the market sustain at any one time? Vegan necklace tables at the local Farmer's market are already WAY overdone.
Seriously, what business could be started with such a small amount of money?
I know what you're saying, and normally I'm not much for Left wing ideas like giving folks money simply because they exist.
But, playing the Devil's advocate.....hypothetically speaking:
No, a guaranteed income of say, $400.00 a week wouldn't be enough to start much a business with.
But it might be enough to make me consider risking some of my savings to start a business.
Savings that I otherwise would not consider touching until retirement or unforseen emergency.
Of course, it would have to be guaranteed regardless of other income including income generated from that business.
I agree with the conservatives who have shown willingness to entertaining the idea: it's better than having dozens upon dozens of other programs.
A society that is talking about this is one that has serious problems with poverty and economic inequality. It's sort of weird that Switzerland is talking about it, and if they are, it's probably going to be a more prevalent conversation in the US in the near future. I say we start thinking of ways to properly deal with the problems we have now so we don't need to have this discussion later.
The only conditions in which I would accept this would be if it replaces all other social programs. Maybe allow some healthcare laws and social security, but absolutely nothing else. And those are conditions I would be agreeing to with a great deal of hesitation.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What Would You do with Guaranteed Income?
