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Old 08-05-2016, 02:21 PM
 
27,215 posts, read 46,787,895 times
Reputation: 15667

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northeastah View Post
interesting that she didn't feel it was important enough to her faith to go without it for the interview or her first 2 days on the job.



Muslim woman says she was fired from new job after refusing to stop wearing hijab - Story | WNYW
Wow, just another media seeking person. Either you apply with it as she didn't convert after 2 days of work.

I would also refuse it at my office as we also keep our office religion free although people are allowed to tell how they feel about thei8r religion there is not one person wearing signs of what their religion is and we want to keep it that way and are a multi cultural office with people from all kinds of backgrounds, race, religions.

No need to have a media seeker added who just wants to get national media attention for the wrong reasons as this sounds like.

Lets see who she is voting for! Even in liberal Europe the courts ruled that employers can refuse the scarf IF an employer doesn't allow other religious items to be worn by other employees.
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Old 08-05-2016, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,848 posts, read 17,635,165 times
Reputation: 29385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
I have some pretty staunch evangelist in my family who believe that women should always wear dresses/skirts. Some of them however, work in an environment whereas it would not be conducive for them to wear a skirt everyday (they wear a uniform). They are still Christians.

Also, one does not represent their religion only with a specific type of dress.

And how is wearing a head scarf proof of any sort reason not to "trust" the new employee. Her head scarf has nothing to do with her work in a dental office.

Honestly, I'm not seeing how many of you don't get this. Her wearing or not wearing it has no bearing on her religious beliefs nor her work. That's like saying someone wearing contacts, then coming in with glasses mis-represented a disability to you. It makes no difference what religion someone is in a dental office.

That fact that you all feel that her wearing a headscarf after being hired is proof of some sort of negative behavior on her part is proof to me that it is you all who have an issue with Muslims wearing head scarves.

Can you not see why she would be nervous about wearing one? I think you can considering how negatively Muslims are viewed in our society right now. She is young and was probably very self conscious about it.

And again, I think because I also come from a minority background and have seen how people overtly stereotype interviewees based on their appearance (especially race or perceived religion), name, or even their address on their resume, I know that people subconsciously are biased against others.

This whole conversation and thread is reminding me of the many stories of black people in the past who were accepted for employment and admitted to colleges/universities via interviews via phone or mail correspondence in the past only to be told that the job/place in school was not available once they showed up as a black person.

Firing her or even saying anything to her about it other than friendly, professional conversation, is just unnecessary and illegal.

Whatever the reason your relatives choose to dress the way they do, it has nothing to do with religion. So again, bringing them up is not relevant.

If you cannot see that someone who misrepresents herself during a job interview, simply to get the job is less than honest, there's nothing I can say to help you understand. I have no problem hiring someone who wears a hijab to the interview, as I stated. I don't like feeling deceived, however.

It's like people who go to a job interview, accept the job, and on day one suddenly remember they need to take two weeks off in a couple of months. They don't mention it during the interview, asking if that would be a problem so the hiring manager can make an informed decision, they just wait until they're already on the job to mention it.

What if the dentist was an Israeli American with a patient base of the same? Right or wrong, they may be upset about having a Muslim assisting the dentist. And the dentist, knowing that, should have the right not to hire her based on that alone. Are you suggesting the dentist wouldn't have a right to be upset about it?
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Old 08-05-2016, 02:54 PM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,353 posts, read 16,403,309 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
...What if the dentist was an Israeli American with a patient base of the same? Right or wrong, they may be upset about having a Muslim assisting the dentist. And the dentist, knowing that, should have the right not to hire her based on that alone...


So you think religious discrimination is OK? We'll certainly agree to disagree on that one.
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Old 08-05-2016, 04:00 PM
 
5,381 posts, read 2,844,112 times
Reputation: 1472
Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
Show us where in the Quran does it say what she must wear. I say this is more of a cultural belief under the guise of religion. The type of head covering or any covering at all varies from country and region of the world.
You are correct that it is a cultural issue and not a religious mandate. If she felt it was a religious mandate, then she would have worn it during the interview and on the first day of work.
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Old 08-05-2016, 04:07 PM
 
5,381 posts, read 2,844,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
It is against the law to fire someone due to their religion.

It would not have hurt anyone for her to wear the headscarf.

I will also note that as a black woman with "natural hair" (i.e. afro-esque/nappy) that I frequently straightened my hair or wore a more "neutral" tone for an interview because I know from working in HR that people do indeed judge by the clothes one wears and the hairstyles especially that black people wear.

Due to that, I can understand her not wearing the head scarf to an interview. They probably would not have considered her for the job if she had it on based on how the dentist is acting now.

I think many of you posting that she "misrepreented" herself or trying to insinuate that she shouldn't work in a dental office are showing your "privilege" being that you have never had to worry about how something in regards to your ethnicity or your cultural background "offends" other people (the majority of people) and how that can stop you from career aspirations unless you make sure not to show that part of you in interviews.

If they don't accept her back in the office, I hope she sues them and wins millions of dollars.
You CHOOSE to wear your hair a certain way because of your perceptions. You are not required by your religion to wear your hair a certain way, but choose to wear it differently when the situation suggests it.

If she claims that wearing a hijab is a requirement of her faith, then she can't just decide not to wear it at the interview and the first few days of work and then suddenly decide she needs to wear it daily. YES, she misrepresented herself.

Changing your hair style is not misrepresenting yourself. I went to an interview as a blond and a week after I started I dyed my hair dark auburn. THAT is not misrepresenting myself.

That said, being fired for adhering to your religious beliefs is unconstitutional and the company will lose should she sue. BUT, she set them up by not wearing the hijab at the interview or even mentioning that her faith requires her to wear a head covering. She practiced Taqiyya.
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Old 08-05-2016, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, Az
77 posts, read 37,145 times
Reputation: 23
I don't see the big deal here we're the "Great land of the Free" well let her exercise her right to practice her religion anywhere. Secondly remember how america was created... You came over and exercised your beliefs and traditions and if they weren't followed the original occupants would have been killed. So what's the big deal with wearing a religious scarf? She's not imploding that you all should conform to her religion, she is just simply following what she was taught. Jewish people do it, Christians do it, some people from the Indies do it. This leads me to think America as majority has something against Muslims. I'm reading some really harsh things all over a scarf, there's gotta be something deeper.
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Old 08-05-2016, 04:10 PM
 
5,381 posts, read 2,844,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
FWIW, I will further add a hypothetical situation:

Say for instance, I, as a hiring manager felt that blue eyes were "threatening" to people. My fictional company serves a population that feels only dangerous people have blue eyes, so therefore if you come to an interview with your blue eyes, I will be nice but not hire you even if you are qualified.

You come to the interview and you wear some brown contact lenses because you know that people see your blue eyes as "threatening." I hire you because I think your eyes are brown and because we had a good repoire in the interview and you are highly qualified and I think you are a good fit. When you come in later without your contacts, I am surprised.


So in all of your minds should I fire this blue eyed person if they don't put their contacts back in?
Blue eyes are not a protected right under the constitution. You can fire that person for any reason you wish as long as it does not violate their constitutional rights.

This case involves freedom of religion. The fact that the woman deceived the employer about her religious requirements does not negate her constitutional rights. It just shows how CAIR and other Muslim groups are using our constitution against us.
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Old 08-05-2016, 04:25 PM
 
5,381 posts, read 2,844,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Oh, does it say something in the Constitution about a person's dress? I didn't know that.

Or tell me where in the Constitution it says that free exercise of religion means that an employer can't have a dress code?

The practice of ones religion is not in the way one dresses. That is tradition. And apparently this woman didn't follow her traditions for the interview or on her first two days, so she must not have a problem with Western attire.

Thirdly, the first amendment is addressed to Congress, not the public at large: "Congress shall make no law ..." is clearly dealing with the passing of laws.

As for "non-discrimination" laws, fail! She showed up for the interview without the head scarf, and for two days. Besides, an employer is not allowed to inquire about a person's religion.
Of course an employer can institute a dress code, but if the only objection to the employee's hijab is that it may offend some customers, that will be an uphill battle in court.

You cannot discriminate against a person solely on the basis of their religion and even though this woman duped the employer, he cannot fire her because of the hijab. If he has an employee handbook that states specifically that the dress code prohibits wearing any type of headwear such as hats, wigs, scarves, etc. due to safety issues, then he may be able to prove that the woman was let go only because she was unable to meet the dress code and that created a safety issue.
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Old 08-05-2016, 04:28 PM
 
5,381 posts, read 2,844,112 times
Reputation: 1472
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
To be a Muslim woman, she is not required to wear a head scarf everyday. No matter what clothes she has one, she is a Muslim woman and dress codes cannot exclude religious practices.
Then why is she making it an issue?
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Old 08-05-2016, 04:41 PM
 
5,381 posts, read 2,844,112 times
Reputation: 1472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystery123 View Post
Religious dresses makes sense if the job is related to religion.
Why do these fks have to take religion to public places, to work in IT or to go to watch movies or boobies?

Read the Constitution. Freedom OF religion, means you don't have to hide your faith behind Church/Temple doors. You have the protected right to be employed, buy homes, rent apartments, eat at restaurants, etc., without regard to your religion. That includes wearing a hijab or a turban or tzitzi's and a kipot. Unless, there is a business reason, like safety, etc., then you cannot be denied the same services or opportunities any other person would be entitled to.
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