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*laughs* Tell me...Laura..does my "newness' somehow devalue my opinion?
Does my "newness" invalidate my 65 years of experience?
Am I reduced to a high school-like shuffling of my feet and a red-faced "Yes, Mam"?
FYI..I've lurked this forum for a few months now..just not that much of a joiner---had a few ideas and regged---am I not welcome?
You are very welcome, and your posts are of equal value to everyone else's...unless they disagree with mine, of course.
I've been hearing a constant refrain in these forums that goes like this "We've lost so many of our rights and freedoms" and "We've had our freedoms and rights taken from us."
This is usually followed by slogans like "Make America Great Again"
I'd appreciate someone telling me when America was Greater/better than now...please be specific as to how it was better and why.
I've started this thread to explore just what "rights" and "freedoms" people feel that we have lost or had taken away from us.
Terms-I guess a freedom can be a very subjective thing-so the field is wide open.
Rights-I'm using the definition a Right is something that is codified by law..and taken away by law.
My take..about the only Right that I can think of that has been taken is the right to freely move between Canada and Mexico without a passport.
Freedom of speech and freedom of information have been greatly increased by the internet..although like anything else, the internet requires a lot of discretion as to what to believe or not. It certainly gives a forum to people whose voices would never have been heard. So..a Freedom gained and a right enhanced.
In fact, as I think of it..we have many more Rights than in the past. Many see this as the problem...The right to have a legal and safe abortion...the right not to be discriminated against on the basis of gender orientation, to name a couple.
-It was a lot easier to get a job before the internet got bigger. You didn't have to worry about these stupid online tests that I can never f'in pass. You just got hired on the spot. This is the most impacting right that is gone of all that equals all the rights that we now have combined.
-Though the world was always dangerous there has been more shootings lately. I think no one has shot a musician since John Lennon and then a few months ago meeting musicians has since been restricted more because of that one insane person
-The TSA. I had to throw out my body wash just because I accidentally put it in carry on. Only a few dollars but just the same. They ironically left the shampoo which I didn't like as much.
-Youtube was better. You didn't have to go to all these special steps to change your video so they won't get blocked. You often have to watch TV shows on questionable websites if you missed them on TV just because they're too damn worried about copyright infringement. Sometimes you can't even find the show on a questionable website either so how are you supposed to watch it?
-I can't get dental care because I don't have a job although that might be an issue of getting older but I am practically developmentally a child so I don't see why it matters
-I have also heard that from my for profit school students are getting their bachelor's in 2 years while I would have had to continue to get mine.
-Ads are on everything now. This goes with YouTube but it's more than just YouTube that it's on. You can't escape them. With some of them I even end up having to leave the app because it redirects me. I have always been okay with ads to a point. I understand that for example when I stream music for free that's just the price I pay..fine. It has always been like that but society today has way overdone them.
-Tidal. Ever since that came along some artists have been resorting to putting their content exclusively on there. Eventually it may get put on YouTube or something but the fact that I have to wait for it is ridiculous. I would be happy to have bought some individual content on Itunes but it wasn't there. Maybe I don't want a subscription. It is too dang expensive.
-One word: Comcast.
There may not be a huge list of rights that are taken away but that's because there's not enough to be taken away. Aside from rights I got just for being a child I never had that many rights to begin with. People could use me as they please and they still have done in recent years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMike77
I'm not sure it's a "right", but I feel that we have lost most of our privacy. Following 911, which was the most convenient tragedy in history, the government finally had it's Boogieman that it needed to "protect" us from. Hence the need to tap our phones, read our emails, monitor our internet activity and God knows what else that we'll never know about. When the government can remotely turn on your cell phone or computer microphone and listen to you in your own home, that's just creepy.
I don't like that either. I like my privacy and my biggest concern about this is you have rights to spy on me and yet you don't even bother to keep the spam callers away even though my home phone has been on the Do Not Call list for a while. They care more about whether I do something harmless like download a random song for free than whether I lose the little money I have.
Last edited by Nickchick; 08-14-2016 at 08:14 PM..
Everyone has ben able to vote for near a century. Plenty of time for amendments.
BZZT! Renters are the class of citizens screwed from the beginning; as a continual political minority - and thus powerless by themselves to amend the Constitution - extending to them the right to vote has not fixed this problem, as we can readily see by the fact renters never did acquire the rights of due process and just compensation extended to property owners all along.
Thing is, the moral case for equal protection on the basis of race, color, and sex was too big to deny equality indefinitely, but given human animus toward the poor, I don't see how the landless will ever achieve parity under the law.
e.g. government can with impunity erect barriers to the acquisition of property and then happily shrug and say, see, No Taking
Your first paragraph indicates you don't understand freedom.
You entered into a contract with another party volunteering to do certain things when you joined the Navy.
Most if not all statists don't understand the concept of consent. We see this in the belief of a "social contract" or using goods & services to survive because using alternatives would mean the cage or death (going along under duress).
Remember, consent is when two or more parties enter into an agreement in which...
A. Both parties have the cognitive ability to do so
B. Are free from force of the other party or a 3rd party
This is the definition of consent. There is no way around it as far as I know.
I understand it better than you, apparently.
I had full cognitive abilities to enter into my agreement with my government, represented in my instance by our Navy.
And as I said, no one forced me whatsoever, in any way, to enlist. Since I was already a legal adult, there was no 3rd party involved.
Furthermore, at the time, I fell into 2 different classes of deferment from the draft. I could have used either or both, and would have never been called up at all, even after the deferments changed over my time of service.
I was happy enough in my life, was facing no kind of legal or other troubles, and part of my desire to enlist was from a feeling of civic responsibility to my nation. The other part of the reason I enlisted in the Navy, instead of another service, was because I wanted to go see parts of the world I had never seen, and would have never seen in my life if not for enlistment.
And in that regard, the Navy sure filled that part of the bargain. I sailed around the continent of South America once, around the African continent once, made many voyages southward to Central and South America in both oceans, spent considerable time in the Caribbean, sailed all around the Mediterranean, was sent to bases on both our coasts, and saw many American cities I would have never visited otherwise. I also developed some lifelong friends who still stay in touch from my hitch who I would have never met otherwise.
In all, I got exactly what I wanted out of my time in service. From the first, I intended to advance just as much as I possibly could in my 4 years in my rank, and achieved that as well. When I was honorably discharged, I had gone as far as I could go.
So in turn, the Navy got exactly what they wanted out of me. Contractually, both parties were mutually satisfied. I never intended to serve more than 4 years from the moment I enlisted, and I have never regretted my decision, as my veteran's benefits put me through college and later, paid some assistance while beginning my first job I ever held outside of my family.
And some of those benefits are still available to me if I ever need them, 52 years later.
When I leave this earth, I know I will have a grave in a nicely kept cemetery if my family chooses it, and I will be among my brothers. All of mutually honored for eternity for the value we briefly gave our great nation, and with our national emblem flying over my head. I know I won't go down in some anonymous hole to be forgotten. I know that some other American will honor me who never knew me in life.
By my reckoning, that's a pretty damned good deal right there. It was sure good enough for millions of my predecessors.
If that makes me a statist in your weak vision, well, then, I bear the label proudly.
So- what's your story, No Recess? What is chapping your tender behind, anyway?
Last edited by banjomike; 08-14-2016 at 09:13 PM..
Glad you mentioned that. The Constitution requires due process before government can take your land, plus just compensation for the taking thereof.
Recall that participation in the Framing was restricted to affluent white men who owned a sufficient amount of property.
It is thus no accident that government can with impunity create obstacles and barriers which prevent people from acquiring property, no due process or just compensation required.
In this context, is the Constitution morally legitimate? What moral authority did the Framers have, to bind to an unfair Constitution, citizens who had no representation?
Quite a few of our conservative posters in this thread certainly had the following written on their primary school report cards: "Does not play well with others".
I understand it better than you, apparently.
I had full cognitive abilities to enter into my agreement with my government, represented in my instance by our Navy.
And as I said, no one forced me whatsoever, in any way, to enlist. Since I was already a legal adult, there was no 3rd party involved.
Furthermore, at the time, I fell into 2 different classes of deferment from the draft. I could have used either or both, and would have never been called up at all, even after the deferments changed over my time of service.
I was happy enough in my life, was facing no kind of legal or other troubles, and part of my desire to enlist was from a feeling of civic responsibility to my nation. The other part of the reason I enlisted in the Navy, instead of another service, was because I wanted to go see parts of the world I had never seen, and would have never seen in my life if not for enlistment.
And in that regard, the Navy sure filled that part of the bargain. I sailed around the continent of South America once, around the African continent once, made many voyages southward to Central and South America in both oceans, spent considerable time in the Caribbean, sailed all around the Mediterranean, was sent to bases on both our coasts, and saw many American cities I would have never visited otherwise. I also developed some lifelong friends who still stay in touch from my hitch who I would have never met otherwise.
In all, I got exactly what I wanted out of my time in service. From the first, I intended to advance just as much as I possibly could in my 4 years in my rank, and achieved that as well. When I was honorably discharged, I had gone as far as I could go.
So in turn, the Navy got exactly what they wanted out of me. Contractually, both parties were mutually satisfied. I never intended to serve more than 4 years from the moment I enlisted, and I have never regretted my decision, as my veteran's benefits put me through college and later, paid some assistance while beginning my first job I ever held outside of my family.
And some of those benefits are still available to me if I ever need them, 52 years later.
If that makes me a statist in your weak vision, well, then, I bear the label proudly.
So- what's your story, No Recess? What is chapping your behind, anyway?
You said this...
Quote:
The only time I ever felt my liberty was impinged upon was when I enlisted in the Navy, but I was not forced to sign up, and I already knew it would happen.
I'm just saying that your freedom, liberty, whatever you'd like to call it is never really impinged upon when you enter a contractual agreement with consent.
Sure, it's not pleasant to have tenets in an agreement you may not like but the actual freedom to choose whether or not to accept it is all that matters in a world where we are so often left with no choice.
Like you said, you knew unpleasantries would follow your agreement but willing to accept them free from duress is a far cry from being forced at gunpoint to do as your told. That's all.
Quite a few of our conservative posters in this thread certainly had the following written on their primary school report cards: "Does not play well with others".
Being a liberal they couldn't put it on your report card for fear of a lawsuit.
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