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Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,400,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decafdave
You're right about the militia being the reason, but even in the modern world, the citizen cannot be stripped by this basic right. The current administration is already violating our rights by throwing out the constitution so the last thing that we the people should do is surrender out last form of power to the government.
I'm not advocating the stripping of any rights, I'm just saying the association of arms with a militia in the Constitution makes it far from clear what the original intention was.
Like I've said, own the guns you choose to, commit a crime when in possession of one (or more) and pay the price. I believe that could work out pretty well.
The framers clearly associated bearing arms with the necessity of a well trained militia, the details of what they had in mind are about as clear as mud.
Since this is clear, please show me the reference to a well trained militia.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,400,252 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by twojciac
Since this is clear, please show me the reference to a well trained militia.
My mistake of course, should've said "well regulated", which doesn't really make things any clearer.
Taken literally and ignoring the association to a "well regulated militia" it would seem the Second Amendment gives any nut-job in the country the right to own a garage full of shoulder fired missiles. It's the inclusion of "well regulated militia" that muddies the water.
If Montana ever seceded, the standard of living to all Montanans would take a severe hit.
Many things would have to be imported, including their "guns", and their exports could cheaply be found elsewhere. Not to mention, their imports from anywhere else in the world would have to make their way through U.S. or Canadian ports, and then freighted into the new country. Federal subsidies for their farmers (among the highest out of all states) would be no more.
Montana's huge decline in economy could possibly degenerate the new nation into that of a 3rd world country, but I guess they'll have their guns.
Maybe after secession, Montana could ask the U.S. for a free trade agreement or join NAFTA?
Though the whole discussion is pretty silly (and really only about guns) the state would have some financial problems if they left the union too:
Montana taxpayers receive more federal funding per dollar of federal taxes paid compared to the average state. Per dollar of federal tax collected in 2005, Montana citizens received approximately $1.47 in the way of federal spending.
You had said: "Isolate Montana and it will put the North East in the hurt locker for power."
I simply made the comment to indicate that it's naive to believe that Montana or any other state could successfully withhold a resource if it was putting a serious hurt on the country.
I still believe it's more good old fahioned politicking than anything else.
Oh I agree. It would just take some time to straighten things out, new contracts, inport export type stuff. Would delay things for a bit.
But it's all kind of a moot point. There is only one state that can legally succeed from the Union. And it's not Montana. It's Texas.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,400,252 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter
Oh I agree. It would just take some time to straighten things out, new contracts, inport export type stuff. Would delay things for a bit.
But it's all kind of a moot point. There is only one state that can legally succeed from the Union. And it's not Montana. It's Texas.
I was under the same impression about TX but was corrected by another poster, apparently when they entered the Union it was with the right to divide into several states but not to secede.
If the only thing preventing more than a few states from leaving our union is a fear of the U.S. military then we will break up eventually. Ponder that.
Actually, the discussion on this thread is not silly and is particularly pertinent to the fact that the American people are no longer a united people. We don't share a common ethnicity, culture, religion, or even language like we used to. So, it's only going to be natural if some of the different groups (or states) start itching to secede and govern themselves for a change.
Again, if some people are seriously considering this possibility during a time of relative economic prosperity imagine the things that will be considered if our economy takes a serious turn for the worse!
If the only thing preventing more than a few states from leaving our union is a fear of the U.S. military then we will break up eventually. Ponder that.
Actually, the discussion on this thread is not silly and is particularly pertinent to the fact that the American people are no longer a united people. We don't share a common ethnicity, culture, religion, or even language like we used to. So, it's only going to be natural if some of the different groups (or states) start itching to secede and govern themselves for a change.
Again, if some people are seriously considering this possibility during a time of relative economic prosperity imagine the things that will be considered if our economy takes a serious turn for the worse!
Much to ponder here, "OldTex". Combine unchecked and unregulated immigration, a headlong rush into a poorly-understood "multiculturalism", a mad rush AWAY from any mandatory civic 'duties', develop a HUGE concept of "rights" for EVERY individual (legal or not), while dispensing with ANY requirement for loyalty, duty, patriotism, or military service...MIX WELL...SIMMER for a decade or so...then CUT YOUR ECONOMY down by about 25 or 30% and WATCH OUT !......"Bosnia, here we COME"...It won't be 'pretty", I'm afraid.....
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leave the union - no way!
